Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Village performace in average speed games

ASX - loss
ASIX - loss
ASVIII - loss
ASVII - WIN ZOMG!!
ASVI - loss
ASV - win (but wait there was an alpha wolf twist!?!?!)
ASIV - loss
ASIII - loss
ASII - loss
AS I - win (but with angel)

other similar games:
pogglesworth - loss
All star II - loss
Redux - loss
All star I - win (but with angel)

So without the angel the village is 2-10 in average speed or similar games and only has 1 win in a straight seer/wolf/villager games.

The village needs some help, either an angel, more peeks, or less wolves.

DISCUSS...

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Vigilante >>>> Angel.

Enough said.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I like having an angel for the first couple days or so; it would tend to prevent the same players from getting killed night one all of the time.

I also had no idea that the village's record was so crappy in these games.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

boiler, in
AS9 the game was extremely close (final 3)
AS10 the game would have been extremely close if the seer had come out with a list

personally I hate the role of an angel, since the wolves have to worry so much about the angel protecting the seer even if the seer comes out. I would support an angel role if the angel could not block the seer.

Even more imbalanced is, of course, an angel role protecting a seer who's a MASON with his backup seer. //blatant dig [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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I like having an angel for the first couple days or so; it would tend to prevent the same players from getting killed night one all of the time.

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I was thinking along the same lines, maybe an angel for the first 4/5 days, then just a regular villager.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

it should probably be mentioned that in AS9 the game was imbalanced in favor of village and they still lost //veiled brag
of course, the seers had terrible luck with peeks

I think that next AS game I will definitely push the seers split the village in half plan

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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I think that next AS game I will definitely push the seers split the village in half plan

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This may just be a good plan considering how valuable villager peeks are. (just a thought)

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I'd prefer an angel over a seer because angels in the game protect the strongest players from getting killed right at the start before there's enough info to seer hunt, and because many games turn into "wait for the seer to tell us what to do" and the whole game revolves around how well the seer can stay alive and make good peeks.

Note that I'm not saying that an angel is as strong as a seer, simply that I think it's more enjoyable to have an angel rather than a seer.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I really like the angel role
I just don't like how angels can protect seers
I'd love angels whose protection on seers did nothing

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

angel that can't protect seers or himself
two seers that each peek every other night

fun!

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Angel works, but it needs to be gimped so we don't have angel-seer madness.

What about backup-seering?

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Angels that can't protect someone in the same turn?

Also, vigilantes rule. We should use them more.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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Angels that can't protect someone in the same turn?


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ZOMG BRILLIANT
Angels who cannot protect the same person two times in a row

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Angels that can't protect someone in the same turn?


[/ QUOTE ]
ZOMG BRILLIANT
Angels who cannot protect the same person two times in a row

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Combined with not being able to protect themselves + the seer?

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

could do an innkeeper...if seer is outed, then angel only protects him 2/3 of the time, with 1/3 going to another villager...so 1/3 hit seer, 1/3 hit villager, 1/3 hit air...but then following night it's 50/50 and then 100%...so seer can't just come out to be protected for long

otherwise, evil roleblocker stops it, but then it's getting beyond an 'average speed' ruleset


angel can protect seer every other night?

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Angels that can't protect someone in the same turn?


[/ QUOTE ]
ZOMG BRILLIANT
Angels who cannot protect the same person two times in a row

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Combined with not being able to protect themselves + the seer?

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not necessary if angels can't protect the same persons two times in a row

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Angels that can't protect someone in the same turn?


[/ QUOTE ]
ZOMG BRILLIANT
Angels who cannot protect the same person two times in a row

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Combined with not being able to protect themselves + the seer?

[/ QUOTE ]
not necessary if angels can't protect the same persons two times in a row

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Angels who can protect themselves are lame, yo.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I'd buy this 23 player average speed for a dollar
I might be too wolf friendly, might be balanced instead for 25 players (+2 villagers)

6 Wolves
2 Seers
1 Vigilante
1 Angel (can't protect self, can't protect same person two times in a row)
13 Villagers

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

we don't need angels.

we need less retarded villages.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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we don't need angels.

we need less retarded villages.

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LOL.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I hate the angel role, but I might put up a vote for the next AS game

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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I hate the angel role, but I might put up a vote for the next AS game

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I'd assume you like it, as it means you don't get auto-killed day 1.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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I hate the angel role, but I might put up a vote for the next AS game

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I'd assume you like it, as it means you don't get auto-killed day 1.

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if I was a wolf and traz was a villager, I would definitely let traz stay alive all the way until the end of the game
I'm pretty sure he'd get halfway rule'd by then

let the metagame begin

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Yes, the village has a bad record in AS, but that doesnt mean the village hasn't been competitive in almost all of them

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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we don't need angels.

we need less retarded villages.

[/ QUOTE ]

You rang?

Oh wait, you said less...kbye.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I think ASX is a pretty assured win if kbar came out with 3 confirmed villagers instead of letting most of us believe that a wolf was a villager.

ASVIII & ASIX both came down to the final three.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

also, ASVI comes down to the final three if wdcbooks isn't retarded

ASIV was final three

All Star II Wolves only won because traz got replaced and we didn't think he would ditch as a wolf, also I knew for a fact they weren't consulting him about night actions (if he was a wolf) which helped his case, and the village had a 8-1 lead at one point

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

ASIII was final 4 since someone got modkilled

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

I really hate playing as angel. I've never understood the hate for having angels in games, though. Sure, if your angel stays alive until the seer comes out, the village can coast. But, if the wolves are so bad they can't find the angel, do they deserve to win?

EDIT: Angels will reduce a lot of the frustration around the games, too. I know lots of people that are tired of dying early, so either don't want to play as much, or purposely act wolfy so they aren't killed night 1. Both these things suck.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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I really hate playing as angel. I've never understood the hate for having angels in games, though. Sure, if your angel stays alive until the seer comes out, the village can coast. But, if the wolves are so bad they can't find the angel, do they deserve to win?

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how do you find the angel? Wolves find seers because seers are trying to give info to the village. Angel shouldn't play any different at all.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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Sure, if your angel stays alive until the seer comes out, the village can coast. But, if the wolves are so bad they can't find the angel, do they deserve to win?

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2 or 3 extra peeks after the seer comes out makes all the difference in the world.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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I really hate playing as angel. I've never understood the hate for having angels in games, though. Sure, if your angel stays alive until the seer comes out, the village can coast. But, if the wolves are so bad they can't find the angel, do they deserve to win?

EDIT: Angels will reduce a lot of the frustration around the games, too. I know lots of people that are tired of dying early, so either don't want to play as much, or purposely act wolfy so they aren't killed night 1. Both these things suck.

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OMG I couldn't disagree more. How does one find the angel? Do they leave angel hints? Finding the angel is nothing more than pure dumb luck. I remember a game early on where the seer was known right off because he played like crap, but he survived for five turns because the angel didn't post much at all. There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I really hate playing as angel. I've never understood the hate for having angels in games, though. Sure, if your angel stays alive until the seer comes out, the village can coast. But, if the wolves are so bad they can't find the angel, do they deserve to win?

EDIT: Angels will reduce a lot of the frustration around the games, too. I know lots of people that are tired of dying early, so either don't want to play as much, or purposely act wolfy so they aren't killed night 1. Both these things suck.

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OMG I couldn't disagree more. How does one find the angel? Do they leave angel hints? Finding the angel is nothing more than pure dumb luck. I remember a game early on where the seer was known right off because he played like crap, but he survived for five turns because the angel didn't post much at all. There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

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wasn't that all star 1? (i.e. the game that made us get rid of the angel)

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

Angels will act differently than normal villagers, so it's doable. But unless you are a ridiculous wolf (read: shortline), the seer's getting extra peeks which screws wolves, and you need to kill people that you don't want to find the angel. So yeah, it's really not that easy to kill the angel.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I really hate playing as angel. I've never understood the hate for having angels in games, though. Sure, if your angel stays alive until the seer comes out, the village can coast. But, if the wolves are so bad they can't find the angel, do they deserve to win?

EDIT: Angels will reduce a lot of the frustration around the games, too. I know lots of people that are tired of dying early, so either don't want to play as much, or purposely act wolfy so they aren't killed night 1. Both these things suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG I couldn't disagree more. How does one find the angel? Do they leave angel hints? Finding the angel is nothing more than pure dumb luck. I remember a game early on where the seer was known right off because he played like crap, but he survived for five turns because the angel didn't post much at all. There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

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And we have a winner.

If you can find wolves as a villager, you can find power villagers as a wolf. I can rarely do either, but lots of other people can. All-star 1 was something of a crapfest all around, as I recall.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

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I disagree.

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Ok, there is minimal skill involved with finding the angel. It certainly isn't like finding the seer. I vowed never again to play a game where the angel can protect the seer for more than one turn and think I will be holding on to that resolution.

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

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I disagree.

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Do you agree that Angel-seer is bah-roken madness considering how game-changing two extra peeks are?

Re: Official bring the ANGEL back to average speed games thread!
 

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There is no skill involved in finding the angel, which is what makes having the role as a seer protector so frustrating.

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I disagree.

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Do you agree that Angel-seer is bah-roken madness considering how game-changing two extra peeks are?

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If villages would learn how to properly cover for their seers, angels are completely unnecessary and incredibly broken.