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-   -   1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s? (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=513223)

euroglot 10-01-2007 03:13 PM

1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Button calls, Hero folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Can I call here preflop with 92s?

BigBadBabar 10-01-2007 03:21 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
yeah, you would have made a straight

Aces McGee 10-01-2007 03:23 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
yeah, you would have made a straight

[/ QUOTE ]

Helpful.

OP, getting 9:1 and closing the action preflop, playing 92s is fine.

-McGee

Bob T. 10-01-2007 03:23 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
I would call preflop, and fold on the flop just like you did.

jesse8888 10-01-2007 04:17 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would call preflop, and fold on the flop just like you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

One Outer 10-01-2007 04:51 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
this is totally results oriented. As played is fine.

Aces McGee 10-01-2007 04:55 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
this is totally results oriented. As played is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not being results-oriented. He's asking about preflop, where he called. He knows the flop fold is correct.

-McGee

One Outer 10-01-2007 05:04 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
This is a really easy decision. The only reason he's posting this is because he went runner runner. Otherwise, why would it be here?

gobbledygeek 10-01-2007 05:20 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is a really easy decision. The only reason he's posting this is because he went runner runner. Otherwise, why would it be here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Irirregardless, the preflop question is still valid.

So, are we playing any suited cards in the BB to a raise getting 9:1? I think I'd have to play a lot better than I do postflop in order for this to work for me, so I'm folding this here. Too tight?

FWIW, I believe (although I could be wrong) that SSHE recommends playing anything that we'd play for one bet in late position.

[Edit: Fixed my double negative.]

Scarmiglio 10-01-2007 05:26 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Irregardless, the preflop question is still valid.

So, are we playing any suited cards in the BB to a raise getting 9:1? I think I'd have to play a lot better than I do postflop in order for this to work for me, so I'm folding this here. Too tight?

FWIW, I believe (although I could be wrong) that SSHE recommends playing anything that we'd play for one bet in late position.

[/ QUOTE ]

The word is "regardless". - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless

I'm with you GG - this looks like an easy fold preflop. Sorry, but 92 is garbage suited or unsuited. 96s is a yes, 95s is a no and that's where I draw the line. The problem with the hand is that we will very rarely win when we don't hit a flush and that doesn't happen often enough to be worth the call preflop.

One Outer 10-01-2007 05:31 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
I don't think that's too tight. It depends on how strong your post flop game it. The simple mathematical question is easy. 9:1, closing the action, suited= call.

Scarmiglio 10-01-2007 05:54 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
So I take it you would limp this on the button after a bunch of callers too? Of course you wouldn't! And on the button you actually have position unlike in this situation. Guess what: bad position + bad cards = easy fold.

One Outer 10-01-2007 06:08 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
I can't argue with that. Good point.

existential_dred 10-02-2007 02:47 AM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
what kind of odds would it take to play 92 suited? let's say you are in the small blind, and the big blind is enourmously passive and is giving every indication that he/she intends to decline the option to raise. if you have seven callers in front of you, do you limp in for half a small bet at 17:1? i do.

i am playing a 4/8 game with a $4 rake these days, (jackpots and tips cancel each other out???) so i generally will pay to see the flop if there are 5-7 limpers, but that is only when the player on my left either telegraphs their intention to check or raise pre-flop or is highly passive. i may be inclined to play these marginal small blind hands also to avoid a table image of being too disciplined. folding your unraised small blind repeatedly is a good way to send that message (to anyone who is paying attention).

BTW, you have about a ~4% chance of flopping trips or two pair with any two unmatched suited cards. compared to the ~6% of making a flush. many of those hands will be counterfeited by the board (four flush on the board, pair on the board).

Bob T. 10-02-2007 03:23 AM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
If you decide to fold here, that is fine, and it is your choice.

In this case, your position isn't as bad as it looks. You are closing the action, which you wouldn't be doing on the button, and most likely the postflop action will start to your immediate left, so you might effectively be acting last on the flop. I call here unless I am up against very good players. If the players are horrible, I call getting 5-1.

Oink 10-02-2007 10:57 AM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I call getting 5-1.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me 2.


Browsing the various limit forums here on 2p2 this question comes up pretty often.

"How good should our odds be to call xxs?"


Then you see the same retarded arguments.

"Your hand sucks and you are OOP so fold"


Poker is a game of math. On 2p2 the goal is to analyse the game from a scientific POW. Anyone using that kind of argumentation in a "real" scientific world will be fired immediately or just ruin his career. I could also say: "Fold AA UTG. Your OOP and your hands sucks"


Back to the hand. I call 92s getting 5:1. Getting 9:1 with bad players in the pot I am also calling a bunch of off suited junk like T7o and 64o.

I cant prove its +EV but my results in PT seem to suggest that it is +EV by quite a nice margin. Lifetime I am up several 100 BB's calling suited junk getting 5:1 or better.

People fold too much.


Oh and the "call with the same hands you would have limped with in late position" argument is retarded as well. Anyone who cant see why sucks at poker and odds.

Scarmiglio 10-02-2007 02:42 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Then you see the same retarded arguments.
"Your hand sucks and you are OOP so fold"

Poker is a game of math. On 2p2 the goal is to analyse the game from a scientific POW. Anyone using that kind of argumentation in a "real" scientific world will be fired immediately or just ruin his career. I could also say: "Fold AA UTG. Your OOP and your hands sucks"

Back to the hand. I call 92s getting 5:1. Getting 9:1 with bad players in the pot I am also calling a bunch of off suited junk like T7o and 64o.

I cant prove its +EV but my results in PT seem to suggest that it is +EV by quite a nice margin. Lifetime I am up several 100 BB's calling suited junk getting 5:1 or better.

People fold too much.

Oh and the "call with the same hands you would have limped with in late position" argument is retarded as well. Anyone who cant see why sucks at poker and odds.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, I guess I suck at poker and odds and am retarded to boot. Thanks for that. Funny how SSHE advocates exactly the same thing. I suppose you're better at poker than Sklansky? Perhaps you should write a book and enlighten us. You sound like a real genius.

NoSetNoBet 10-02-2007 02:53 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I could also say: "Fold AA UTG. Your OOP and your hands sucks"

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure could, but then you expose yourself as a retard.

KenProspero 10-02-2007 02:54 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
Pe-flop -- depends on your style. I fold this, but think it's probably a pretty close call, depending on what I think of the other players at the table.

KitCloudkicker 10-02-2007 03:57 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
i lol@ this thread.

OP it depends how comfortable you are at playing a hand like this OOP postflop. fwiw I would call, and I bet that most of the regulars in this forum would be +EV with this hand in this spot as well, including scarmiglio.

However, before you call, you should have a plan for the following:

1) what do i do if i flop a flush draw?
2) what do I do if i flop two pair?
3) what do I do if i flop top pair?

etc. dont go play this hand if you're clueless postflop.

KitCloudkicker 10-02-2007 03:59 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
So I take it you would limp this on the button after a bunch of callers too? Of course you wouldn't!

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not nearly as big an error as you are making it sound. its a small mistake in this spot.

over like 100,000 hands this will show up as -EV, which is why its a fold pf on the button.

the reason you can call in the BB is because of the money you had to post before the cards were dealt, swinging a very slightly -EV decision to a very small +EV side.




mikeca 10-02-2007 04:21 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
I would fold pre-flop without a second thought, but I don’t think it is that big a mistake to call. It depends on how well you play post flop. In my mind this kind of hand makes the second best hand too often to be profitable, but if you play well enough post flop I don’t see any problem with it.

Scarmiglio 10-02-2007 04:49 PM

Re: 1-2 preflop question.....can I call here from the BB with 92s?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I take it you would limp this on the button after a bunch of callers too? Of course you wouldn't!

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not nearly as big an error as you are making it sound. its a small mistake in this spot.

over like 100,000 hands this will show up as -EV, which is why its a fold pf on the button.

the reason you can call in the BB is because of the money you had to post before the cards were dealt, swinging a very slightly -EV decision to a very small +EV side.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that this is not necessarily an error, but I think that most people at this level don't have the post flop skills necessary for this to be worth the VERY slight +ev you can extract from this hand. For many players a hand like this is far too easy to lose bets on when they catch a piece of the flop and it's not worth the energy to try to extract that tiny bit of value. Better to save the mental energy and move on to the next hand. Also, playing hands like this increases your variance and has the potential to put people on tilt when you lose to a bigger flush, bigger trips, or bigger two pair.


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