Fun w/ AJs
 

Bellagio 30-60, 9 handed. MP is on his first orbit at the table, young Asian kid, looks like he might be good, also looks like he might be a retard, I don't know. SB is loose and does really stupid stuff regularly. The game has regularly been 5-7 seeing the flop for the past hour.

Preflop:
UTG limps, The Dude raises next to act with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP pauses for a moment and calls. SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SBs) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 Players)</font>
SB donks, UTG folds, The Dude raises. MP pauses for two seconds and calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7.5 BBs) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 Players)</font>
SB checks, The Dude bets, MP raises in rhythm. SB looks upset but folds, The Dude...?

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Call, check-call the river.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

prb has same hand / could be free-showdowning w/ AXcc

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

I think you're beat bad here most of the time.
I think MP has AQ or 88 here a lot of the time.

Don't raise AJ from EP.

That said, call, and then check-call any river.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise AJ from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahahahahahaha.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise AJ from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOLLMAOMFINGROFL2P2RAWWR

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Call, check-call the river.

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follow these instructions to the letter Dudester.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're beat bad here most of the time.
I think MP has AQ or 88 here a lot of the time.

Don't raise AJ from EP.

That said, call, and then check-call any river.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJs = mucho good, raise away

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]


Don't raise AJ from EP.



[/ QUOTE ]

ban to beginners forum

OP, call down sir

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

You guys ever think it's worth checking the turn here? MP calls two cold on a flop that has no draws whatsoever, so unless MP is cold-calling preflop with 57, he should be betting the turn like, uh, all the time.

I almost always bet the turn the same way as OP, but I'm re-evaluating now.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
AJs = mucho good, raise away

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I disagree. I claim at best it's marginal.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AJs = mucho good, raise away

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I disagree. I claim at best it's marginal.

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You claim wrong. I'm sure page 17 table x tells you to not raise here. But raising is better then calling, and folding is obviously incorrect. So raise.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
You guys ever think it's worth checking the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I actually did think about it on the turn, and had we been heads up I think I would have, but the [censored] small blind is behind and calling my bet, so...

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Call the turn and decide on the river. If your read is accurate you are probably behind but almost certainly behind to a club on the river that semibluffed. (would he call preflop with AcXc?)

Incidentally, I am having a hard time responding to your threads because of the "fun with .." titles. Something about it just annoys me but I can't tell you why. Maybe it is the lack of originality making it hard to distinguish one hand from the next or that it just seems flat out gay since most of these hands aren't fun. Anyway, I don't know if it is just me or others as well.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AJs = mucho good, raise away

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I disagree. I claim at best it's marginal.

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LoL!

Wow, you were serious about not raising here preflop? Umm...ok.

b

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Looks alot like a set. But given how little of info you have on MP, I'd call this out and be ready to say 'nh'.

b

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
and folding is obviously incorrect

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I disagree. Why not just fold, and wait for a better spot.
For example, one with a similar hand, but with better position.

I don't read books.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and folding is obviously incorrect

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Why not just fold, and wait for a better spot.
For example, one with a similar hand, but with better position.

I don't read books.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey man the world needs nits for sure.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Sure looks like a set duder.

It is close between fold now and calldown unless the river is club, in which case you fold.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Strange raise given the action... comes down to the read on the player for me. If he's got a brain/might semi-bluff/gets tricky I check call, note what he shows down. If he's passive or predictable a fold here isn't terrible. I lean towards calling if I'm unsure, better to lose a bet or two than the whole pot in that case.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]

Don't raise AJ from EP.


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Whew.

Joking aside, this forum is a resource for advise and information. If you're folding AJ, let alone AJ suited, in EP at a normal table you need to reassess your game.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

I think typical Vegasites are more likely to cold call a pre-flop raise with A-xs than pocket pairs. So he might well have Ac-xc and your hand it still good.

Yet when a guy raises the turn when the 8c comes, the most likely explanation is that the 8c helped his hand. So you could be drawing dead.

Since we don't know anything about this kid, I guess I'd call him down and find something out and maybe win the pot.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since we don't know anything about this kid, I guess I'd call him down and find something out and maybe win the pot.

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Agreed. Folding seems weak tight. Raising would be spew. So just call down and lose a majority of the time.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]


Incidentally, I am having a hard time responding to your threads because of the "fun with .." titles. Something about it just annoys me but I can't tell you why. Maybe it is the lack of originality making it hard to distinguish one hand from the next or that it just seems flat out gay since most of these hands aren't fun. Anyway, I don't know if it is just me or others as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome post, surfdoc. I agree completely but I'm glad someone else said it. Dude has been doing this for over 3 years, so I've just come to accept it now -- and he seems like a nice enough guy that complaining about it felt petty. However, you stated it so eloquently I'm jealous you got to it first.

Fun with Surfdoc
 

That's better, no?

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Call down.
As for PF, I'm sure I would have raised too, but i kinda like limping in EP at a semi-loose table.

Re: Fun with Surfdoc
 

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Fun with Surfdoc

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Looks good if you were a little younger, a little blonder, a little more female, and had a little nicer rack.

Re: Fun with Surfdoc
 

I have to agree here, you're probably up against a set or a AcXc. I call and call any non river club. You're getting 5 to 1 on your calldown.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise AJ from EP.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOLLMAOMFINGROFL2P2RAWWR

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

I have started to re-evaluate my play in these situations. In the 10/20 I play, the guy cold calling almost always has a set. I know this because I always call... If not a set then likely a two pair. Your villain could conceivably have 75s.

Your guy could also have AXs in clubs without the two pair as Andy Fox mentioned - seeing as he hesitated pre-flop and you were getting 5-7 players to the flop. Maybe he won't bet the river too... Thats what I say to myself when I call this bet. And there is the slightest of chances he has ATs or A9s non-clubs and is a tricky player.

I am trying to hold back on the turn, even with others in, so the pot stays small enough that I can get away from this, unless I know the cold caller is a calling station. I lean in the direction of: if I don't know the player I assume he is not tricky. But that is 10/20. 30/60 I don't know.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

I think I could find a fold here. The cold call on the flop followed by the turn raise in rhythm is pretty much the nuts usually. So if I don't think the guy looks FOS I'd fold.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Can you describe the FOS look? I'm serious here.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

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Can you describe the FOS look? I'm serious here.

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Yeah it's when the guy brings out the chips at like 75 mph and then cuts out the stacks as quickly as possible. Of course it's different for everyone, but that's a common one.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Sure smells like a set, when I'm playing very well, I can fold correctly. When I'm playing good, I call, and then fold the river. When I'm not playing that well, I insta-call down.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

fold... he's got a set of 4's or 6's

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can you describe the FOS look? I'm serious here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah it's when the guy brings out the chips at like 75 mph and then cuts out the stacks as quickly as possible. Of course it's different for everyone, but that's a common one.

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I raise every turn like that, regardless of my holding, but 95% of the time I have something I want to get called by since no one ever folds anything to me.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Against most opponents, including ones I don't have a really good read on yet, I throw this away without much thought. I think a lot of you guys overestimate the trickiness of the typical mid limit player. Could a typical player have AcXc? Of course. Would this typical player be likely to raise the turn with this hand? No. I think you are looking at 666 here very often and sometimes A8s, and a very very small percentage of the time AcXc. Given the texture of the board and the way you played your hand, he probably knows you have a big ace and doesn't care. That's why I would fold, but I suck at poker so take it for what it's worth.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

Folding "without much thought" to a turn raise here will mean difficulty in beating 30-60 games and higher. Historically, you're right about the typical mid-limit player in Vegas not having much trickiness in him, but I don't know if that's the case any more.

Re: Fun w/ AJs
 

[ QUOTE ]
Folding "without much thought" to a turn raise here will mean difficulty in beating 30-60 games and higher. Historically, you're right about the typical mid-limit player in Vegas not having much trickiness in him, but I don't know if that's the case any more.

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Ok, "without much thought" was probably bad wording. More like I would fold and not lose sleep over it. And my biggest weakness is calling down waaay too much.