Gambling Addiction
 

What % of winning players would you guys say have gambling addictions?
Do you think it helps or hurts your progress as a better poker player?
If you do have one, how do you best deal with it when trying to focus on other aspects of life?


I know that I crave the need to play sometimes after less then a day of not playing. I have not played for 2 weeks (due to me being in italy for vacation and it being illegal to play in italy) and I miss it terribly. Sometimes this bothers me, and I am wondering if other people go through similar things such as this.

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

How can having a weakness ever be a good thing?

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How can having a weakness ever be a good thing?

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i know i luv gambling and have been playing poker for a living since 2002, but i hate playing poker. I luv cilo , hi card, sports betting, but my crave for action during the day helps me play a lot more hands during the week online. so being a borderline degenerate helps me in my poker career.

But id say if ur a losing player (like 99% of foxwoods players) then it is a really bad addiction and i see nice people lose a lot of money.

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What % of winning players would you guys say have gambling addictions?
Do you think it helps or hurts your progress as a better poker player?
If you do have one, how do you best deal with it when trying to focus on other aspects of life?


I know that I crave the need to play sometimes after less then a day of not playing. I have not played for 2 weeks (due to me being in italy for vacation and it being illegal to play in italy) and I miss it terribly. Sometimes this bothers me, and I am wondering if other people go through similar things such as this.

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also if u luv it now, eventually ull prolly get bored with it and do it less, and if u decide to do it for a job , it will become "a job". I used to play 15 hours a day and loved it so much, now i have to force myself to play 3-4 hours online a day, or 8 hours live a day.

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im pretty convinced that there were few responses in this thread because no one wants to admit to themselves about their gambling vices.

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im pretty convinced that there were few responses in this thread because no one wants to admit to themselves about their gambling vices.

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i didn't post cause i can't comment on in first person but while i was at school i had a friend who had a compulsive gambling problem. he would bet huge sums on sports and play online poker during the day at my apt while smoking an eighth of dank a day instead of going to class. he loss to the tune of 2500-5000 a month. when he would get low on cash he would head off to his family's c-store and steal a roll of $5 scratchoffs and we would scratch them all off so he could get the $150 out of the $300 roll of tickets. he had it bad for gambling and smoking dank and still does. funny thing is him playing poker is why i got started in online poker but yet i have grinded up a roll from $36 to $630 while he constantly runs through money.

as far as winning players having an addiction i go through periods were i play a lot of hours and then i go through periods like i am in now were i have to literally force myself to play. normally this is b/c i do not want to play a long session and i know if i start playing and get stuck its marathon time. i kind of equate it to drinking soda. sometimes i cannot get enough of it and then some days i can't stand it.

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

There is a lot of confusion here I think. Top players almost all like to gamble. So they push hard in marginal spots and run over players who don't like to gamble. This can be considered the 'sickness' top players admit to having.

OTOH, true gambling addiction I think has to do with players wanting to lose to punish themselves for their good fortune, or to prove they can lose it and still be OK.

These two things share some similarity but are different overall.

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What % of winning players would you guys say have gambling addictions?
Do you think it helps or hurts your progress as a better poker player?
If you do have one, how do you best deal with it when trying to focus on other aspects of life?


I know that I crave the need to play sometimes after less then a day of not playing. I have not played for 2 weeks (due to me being in italy for vacation and it being illegal to play in italy) and I miss it terribly. Sometimes this bothers me, and I am wondering if other people go through similar things such as this.

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probably 85% of poker players, even winning players are somewhat addicted to playing poker. Playing pool is also an addiction but I call it healthy addiction. Just like my addiction to get BJ. HQAHJAHAHA

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I really find it hard to believe that any winning player is addicted. I'd put the number at 20% tops.

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I really find it hard to believe that any winning player is addicted. I'd put the number at 20% tops.

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I really find it hard to believe that any winning player is addicted. I'd put the number at 20% tops.

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I think the opposite is true. I am certainly addicted.

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I think the opposite is true as well.

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I really find it hard to believe that any winning player is addicted. I'd put the number at 20% tops.

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Then explain how it is that guys like Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Lindgren, et al basically gamble on everything they do?

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Then explain how it is that guys like Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Lindgren, et al basically gamble on everything they do?

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Just because people gamble that doesn't mean they are addicted. I've played cards almost every day for the last 15 years but I'm not an addict. Addicted implies a lack of agency or control over their choices. I enjoy gambling. I gamble a lot. I don't feel any compulsion to gamble though so I'm not an addict. This last Sunday I did not like any of the NFL games so I had zero action. An addict would have forced a bet on something.

Anyone who is an addict is, by definition, not in control. Someone who is not in control can never be a long term successful gambler. I don't know the people listed personally so I can't be 100% certain, but everything I do know about them, implies that they are in full control of their choices.

I had been playing at a B&M with a group of guys and then we decided to go out to a bar. While we were getting cleaned up and pre-drinking at one of their houses we started playing fooseball for $1k a game. Guy #1 lost $11k to Guy #2. After 2 games it was clear Guy #1 had no chance of winning vs Guy #2. Both were doing the same act but Guy #2 was a smart gambler while Guy #1 is an addict.

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100%

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The word "addiction" is the problem here. Psychologists (including me) don't diagnose "Gambling Addiction." The official disorder is "Pathological Gambling." This is not just semantics, it is a meaningful difference. The key elements are loss of control and harm to your life in some way.

This means that PG can be diagnosed even in a once a month gambler, but also means that many daily gamblers who can't wait to get back to the table may not have PG (although undoubtedly some do).

It is also possible to have a PG problem in some aspects of your gambling life, but not others. The are MANY cases of solid, +EV poker players who gamble pathologically on craps or sports.

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

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The word "addiction" is the problem here. Psychologists (including me) don't diagnose "Gambling Addiction." The official disorder is "Pathological Gambling." This is not just semantics, it is a meaningful difference. The key elements are loss of control and harm to your life in some way.

This means that PG can be diagnosed even in a once a month gambler, but also means that many daily gamblers who can't wait to get back to the table may not have PG (although undoubtedly some do).

It is also possible to have a PG problem in some aspects of your gambling life, but not others. The are MANY cases of solid, +EV poker players who gamble pathologically on craps or sports.

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Hey Milo, I think your avatar is a big buff bug flexing - am i a pathological gambler? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

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I really find it hard to believe that any winning player is addicted. I'd put the number at 20% tops.

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Then explain how it is that guys like Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Lindgren, et al basically gamble on everything they do?

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They are skilled professional gamblers who have sufficient skill to give them a "vigorish" over their competition in the games they play. And since they have a sufficient bankroll to cover the variance, they eventually win money in the long run in just the same way that the house wins money at roullette, craps, and similar house games with a built-in vig.

You would need to define what you mean by "addiction" to get a good response to your question. Problem gambling generally involves lack of control of some kind. A problem gambler plays at games and at levels in which he is virtually guaranteed to lose - but he steals or borrows to continue gambling anyway. None of the pros you mention seem to be problem gamblers. On the other hand, a guy like Stu Unger was obviously a great poker player who was addicted to drugs and other forms of gambling at which he was less skilled. He died busto in a hotel room. I'd say he was an addict.

On the other hand, if by "addicted" you mean "someone who plays many hours, thinks about gambling all the time, and puts his personal relationships at risk because of the time he devouts to gambling," then many pro gamblers are probably "addicts" to some degree. But that is a poor definition of "addiction," IMO.

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I was definately born as a gambling addict - I used to get my parents to buy me lottery cards all the time. I remember crying in the back of our car as an 8-year-old because they wouldn't buy me this big new expensive scratch card. I always had the urge to gamble after that but I was too young to be able to.

Then I was introduced to poker. This was the game I'd been looking for - every hand and every street was a gamble. I was truly addicted. I'm still addicted to gambling today, though only if I think it's +EV.

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Then explain how it is that guys like Brunson, Negreanu, Ivey, Lindgren, et al basically gamble on everything they do?

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Just because people gamble that doesn't mean they are addicted. I've played cards almost every day for the last 15 years but I'm not an addict....

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You're addicted. It's a game of cards.

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

No. Trust me I'm not.

First off I don't believe in psychological addiction. It is complete BS made to excuse people from bad decisions.

Second I only play the bare minimum required to make by daily goal. After that I have zero interest in the game. I don't ever feel an urge to play poker. In fact I usually dislike playing poker. I find it boring.

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So every day of your life you play a card game you dislike, but you're not addicted? No different to any drug or gambling addict who needs a daily fix. They hate the control the addiction has over their life too.

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I don't hate it. I'm mostly ambivalent towards it. I play poker because I have a very high burn rate and need to make money. If I had an unlimited supply of money I would never play poker.

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Henry did you like poker at some point then? Or did you stop liking it after playing for a couple years.

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Hard to say. I know I use to get excited about certain games but that was because I knew certain people would be at them and that I'd have a good shot at making more than average money. But I think it was the prospect of making money rather than poker that got me excited.

I have friends who play poker for fun or for $10-20 home game tournaments because they just enjoy poker. They watch poker on TV. They talk about poker etc. I was never like that. Poker was just something that was always there. I'd go out for the night. If I didn't pick up by 1-2am then I'd head over to the the club and play some poker. The clandestine aspect of playing underground games was a plus that I miss a little.

Online poker I have never enjoyed. I play at a much lower level online than I do B&M and I have no desire to play any higher so it is just very mechanical.

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Henry, you are the opposite of me. If someone gave me all the money in the world in order to stop playing poker, I wouldn't take it. I love poker so much. And I am serious about that.

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I don't hate it. I'm mostly ambivalent towards it. I play poker because I have a very high burn rate and need to make money. If I had an unlimited supply of money I would never play poker.

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You said you usually dislike playing poker. I'd hate to not have any alternative options for making money and have to stick with doing something I dislike everyday for 15 years. That must be horrible.

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Well no. I dislike work more than I dislike poker.

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There's plenty of easy money to be made in this world. You just need imagination and some balls. Maaaan, I couldn't spend 15 years of my life doing something I usually dislike because my imagination doesn't extend past the decision to gamble or take a dreary 9-5 job.

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

I think you are misunderstanding dislike. I don't hate gambling. I just don't like it. That being said unless clubs start paying me $25-50k to just show up I'm pretty much going to dislike doing anything.

I'm also fairly sure we have different burn rates so while it might be possible for you to come up with something to match your lifestyle there are no income sources that can fulfil the requirements I'm looking for (except for some illegal ventures which I object to on moral grounds).

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Henry, you are the opposite of me. If someone gave me all the money in the world in order to stop playing poker, I wouldn't take it. I love poker so much. And I am serious about that.

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ya i love to play too, when that stops and i get bored i will probably quit poker too. But since its such a complex game and i can learn new games i prolly wont anytime soon.

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I never said that you said you hate poker. I am well aware you said you dislike it. It must be horrible having to do something you don't like for a mere 25k-50k a year. Sounds an awful lot like a crappy job to me.

I don't judge though. I don't know your situation, or what makes you unable to improve your life and lifestyle. I'm just thankful I don't have to spend each day doing something I dislike until the day I die/retire.

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mere 25k-50k a year

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lol ... yes this is exactly what I make.

Re: Gambling Addiction
 

It's what you make from spending part of everyday playing a game you dislike. Not everyone has the opportunities or intellect to create a better life for themselves.

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ok

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I really find it hard to believe that any winning player is addicted. I'd put the number at 20% tops.

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An addiction is almost always something that involves negative consequences. The 'user' continues to 'use' despite these negative consequences.

A winning player I would define as someone making a comfortable living. Someone winning at $2 an hour and playing 120 hours a week I would define as having a problem.

Someone who is disciplined enough to make a living or a nice side income doesn't (usually) have these negative consequences. The only problem would be I'm making too much money and I can't stop. Hmmmm....

I would put the number of winning players as described above as truly addicted at close to zero.

It's like saying how many professional wine tasters are alcoholics? Possible, but unlikely, as they would quickly get weeded out.

Anyone truly addicted is unlikely to:

A) Believe it enough to get treatment (denial is the key word here).

B) Admit it here.