[NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $5</font>, BB folds, CO calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($11, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $5</font>, Hero calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $20</font>, CO calls.

Results:
Final pot: $75

Villian is passive.
Is this standart?

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

You picked up a double gutter. I would have doubled here, then bailed on the river if I bricked against a passive opponent. He will never bluff on the river if you check, and almost always call if you get there &amp; bet.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

Oh and I'd prb bet like 30 at the end too.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

yeah bet a tad more on the river. like 28$

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

double barrel then value bet river.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

i don't like a double-barrel. Why is everyone suggesting it?

What do u think Villain's range is for calling the flop?
Sets (66) = 6 ways
2 pair (QTs + T9s) = 4 ways (possibly more)
TP (QK,QJ) = 24 ways
MP (TJs,T8s, T7s)= 5 ways
s-draw (KJ,98s) = 15 ways

u get the idea-- all of the above hands call the turn --sure there are alot of other bottom pair hands that fold to a turn bet. But I think the number of hands that call the flop that are calling the turn is &gt;&gt;&gt; than the number of hands that call the flop and fold the turn. Not to mention that we'll get blown off our draw by the type of hands that will pay us off on the river.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

plz plz plz plz plz fire the turn.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

I think checking the turn is good. I probably bet slightly more on the river, like 25.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

bet more on flop

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

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plz plz plz plz plz fire the turn.

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plz plz plz plza explain why.

if we fire turn and get called. We're going to have to fire the river when we miss and there's a decent chance that a passive villain will look us up. In addition, we're going to get raised a decent % of the time by slow played set and 2-pairs.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

more on flop, checking turn is fine, 25ish on river

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

I dont think we ever have to fire the river when we miss against this opponent. If he checks behind we may even have the best hand, but he will normally be ahead of us.

I like doubling the turn because we have a good amount of equity, but we're not going to be able to profitably check-call normally.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

bet more on flop
\c/c ont urn seems fine
river bet is ok migth fire 25

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

Given villain is passive he's likely to check a pretty big portion of his range. When he bets big we fold (this will be with hands we're not getting to fold with a bet anyway) and when he bets small we call (like in this case). I don't think we're having much folding equity because he won't fold Qx and most of his range turned pair+gs, pair+oesd or 2-pair. Just check and hope he gives us a free one which is pretty likely.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given villain is passive he's likely to check a pretty big portion of his range. When he bets big we fold (this will be with hands we're not getting to fold with a bet anyway) and when he bets small we call (like in this case). I don't think we're having much folding equity because he won't fold Qx and most of his range turned pair+gs, pair+oesd or 2-pair. Just check and hope he gives us a free one which is pretty likely.

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QFT

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think we ever have to fire the river when we miss against this opponent. If he checks behind we may even have the best hand, but he will normally be ahead of us.

I like doubling the turn because we have a good amount of equity, but we're not going to be able to profitably check-call normally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate not firing the river if we double-barrel. it's pretty obvious that the Villain has a mediocre hand if he calls our double barrel...the question whether he'll fold a mediocre hand on the river is something else. but the line u take should tell a story and the story you're telling with your double-barrel is that you have a monster and so u tell the ending of the story on tons of blank rivers.

ur right that we can't check-call alot of bets, but then why can we bet and get called? this doesn't make sense.

don't take this personally, but i think ur paying too much attention to the Hero's hand and not enough to the Villain's range for calling a flop bet.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

I don’t like the double barrel on the turn. As mentioned above there are a lot of hands out there that call on the flop and can even raise you on the turn. What are you doing with your double gutter when you’r facing a big raise. Against KJ your are almost drawing dead.

But the main point is, if you make your straight on the river you can value bet and will get called by the hands that raise you on the turn (sets and 2 pair). At 100nl most player cant fold 2 pair or sets on a 4-straight board.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

Paul, I dont take it personally. But I dont agree. The reason I say never fire a blank river is because IMO villan never folds anything. Which is also why valuebetting the river is so good when we do get there. Do you disagree?

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

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ur right that we can't check-call alot of bets, but then why can we bet and get called? this doesn't make sense.

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We bet on a semibluff. It kinda sucks that we got called, and that's not what we were hoping for, but we at least have outs.

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ur right that we can't check-call alot of bets, but then why can we bet and get called? this doesn't make sense.

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We bet on a semibluff. It kinda sucks that we got called, and that's not what we were hoping for, but we at least have outs.

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Villain range on the flop is probably something like Q8+/T8+/KJ/J9. Which of these do you think he fold? Maybe he's sometimes making a crying call on the flop with a PP but that's the only hand he might have that will fold. Why semi-bluff a passive player when he's unlikely to fold and likely to give us a freecard with a decent portion of his range? That's the problem here, betting the turn isn't profitable without some real FE (at least not more profitable than checking).

Re: [NL100] AJ Calling the turn
 

Nick, your earlier post convinced me that checking is prb best - I was just explaining why.