Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

Note that we are somewhat deep here, and irish has a monster stack, and has been running the table over.

I consider the villian to be one of the strongest players on ub at the 10/25 level. I think he is far stronger HU, but he's good at 6max too. He is on the loose side for sure, and is willing to make big semibluffs if he thinks you are FOS. He plays most draws very fast.

Onto the hand: I have 88 and decide to call his raise from the blinds. Sometimes I 3-bet here this time I decide to call. I flop bottom set, I chk, he bets, I CR. Standard.

He flat calls. This is certainly worrisome, but my hand is usually good here. The turn brings the 10, which is not a great card, it also puts a flush draw on board, and complete some straight hands (although I THINK AQ can be ruled out, though I'm not sure).

What do people usually do on this turn? Is betting a good idea? I decide to fire. And this is where the hand gets very interesting. He min-raises. My action? Was my turn bet idiotic?






irishcurve08 is at seat 0 with $14677.
badposture is at seat 1 with $2500.
BellagioLee is at seat 2 with $723 (sitting out).
maxEmus125 is at seat 3 with $2463.
HERO is at seat 4 with $4668.50.
DrunkPPlaya is at seat 5 with $2356.
The button is at seat 1.

maxEmus125 posts the small blind of $10.
HERO posts the big blind of $25.

irishcurve08: -- --
badposture: -- --
maxEmus125: -- --
HERO: 8c 8d
DrunkPPlaya: -- --

Pre-flop:

DrunkPPlaya folds. irishcurve08 raises to $85.
badposture folds. maxEmus125 folds. HERO
calls.

Flop (board: 8h Jd Ks):

HERO checks. irishcurve08 bets $180.
HERO raises to $625. irishcurve08 calls.

Turn (board: 8h Jd Ks Th):

HERO bets $975. irishcurve08 raises to $1950.
HERO?

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

ez push. 2 pair and pair+straight draw as far more likely than a higher set or a straigth, although he would prob. call witht he pair+draw combo.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

sooo...he's min raising why?

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
ez push. 2 pair and pair+straight draw as far more likely than a higher set or a straigth, although he would prob. call witht he pair+draw combo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd push but putting him on a pair+straight draw is incredibly optimistic. And when I say incredibly optimistic, I am being incredibly optimistic. Also if he has two pair, it is only ever KJ.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

curve hardly ever would raise pair+draw here from my experience w/ him.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
curve hardly ever would raise pair+draw here from my experience w/ him.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think he could with AKhh, but thats about it.


this is an easy shove IMO...especially with such a big stack irishcurve is probably playing more LAG than normal.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

i'm not sure what you guys are saying: everyone thinks i'm beat, yet I should shove? that makes no sense...am i missing something? do u guys bet this turn anyway? what am I getting called by?

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
curve hardly ever would raise pair+draw here from my experience w/ him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not sure what you guys are saying: everyone thinks i'm beat, yet I should shove? that makes no sense...am i missing something? do u guys bet this turn anyway? what am I getting called by?

[/ QUOTE ]

we're not saying your beat.

i don't see irish smooth calling with a set on this flop, or AQ(possibly KK, but i doubt it). at least in my experience playing with him he is very agressive and plays both his big hands and big draws strong. I just't can't see folding a set there to him w/o a good read.

possbily KhJh? otherwise I am having trouble putting him a on ahdn he would min raise you with there, since I'd think hed shove a set

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

this is about as close to a fold as a set gets......minraise is so weird....in the heat of the game vs an aggro player like irishcurve i probably push, but thinking about it folding seems better

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

if curve had a set on this flop, id guess hed mix 3 betting and calling w/ a pretty decent freq.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

just fyi I have about 2k left even after I call his raise (if I call), so it's not as thought we are 100bbs deep. That makes the hand a bit tougher. If I had 2500 I'd call all-in day.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

Funny how noone has commented on the c/r being standard.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

I prefer a lead vs irish, but i wasnt gonna be a nit about it since a c/r can be ok there too

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

i should have written this in the OP, but I will CR more than most 10/25 players with a wide range of hands (underpairs, gutshots, total air, etc including strong hands).

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

If you do as you say you do, then the "What do people usually do on this turn? Is betting a good idea?"-question answers itself, otherwise you are playing a very exploitable game.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
Funny how noone has commented on the c/r being standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about that, just kinda assumed it.

I mean, if I'm irish, then OP could have A LOT wider range than 2p or a set, especially if he C/R's more than most.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

had second set.....

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

irish, ty for responding to this thread, can you give any other comments regarding this hand? fwiw, I respect your play a lot and thought I was behind on the turn when you raised.

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

not gonna tell u how i play or why i played it why i did...sorry

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
not gonna tell u how i play or why i played it why i did...sorry

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm...let me see if I can't take a wild guess (assuming you're telling the truth about second set)...you minraised because people don't fold to minraises and then you make more money with your set. mystery solved?

Re: Bottom Set fairly deep v. Irishcurve08 (10/25 UB) 6max
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not gonna tell u how i play or why i played it why i did...sorry

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm...let me see if I can't take a wild guess (assuming you're telling the truth about second set)...you minraised because people don't fold to minraises and then you make more money with your set. mystery solved?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you're Way Off. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

RESULTS
 

I honestly thought I was behind on the turn to a straight, and decided to call for boat value. The river paired the 10, and I shoved. He had JJ. I think the turn is a fold, fwiw, and disagree with the people who said shove.

I also think that I should have reraised pre, and led flop.

Thanks for your comments guys, very much apppreciated. It's posts like these that remind me what a great resource 2p2 hsnl is.

dlpnyc21

Re: RESULTS
 

kinda weird that irish showed up and told you he had second set when the hand went to showdown and you saw what he had. by the way, whatup irish. long time no see.

Re: RESULTS
 

I guess irish's play wasn't super awesome if you were able to almost get away from a set over set situation

Re: RESULTS
 

this is a super ez river fold, if u didnt already correctly fold the turn.

Re: RESULTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is a super ez river fold, if u didnt already correctly fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are way off here.

Hero has 2k left and pot is now over 5.2k. The river ten did not improve Villain's hand relative to ours for any of his possible holdings. If we call turn, pushing is best play for that river.

Re: RESULTS
 

chk fold after i boated with 2k left? I put him on a straight on the turn??

Re: RESULTS
 

how does he ever have a straight on the turn? he has a set here all day, which is why i said folding turn is best.

Re: RESULTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
how does he ever have a straight on the turn? he has a set here all day, which is why i said folding turn is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you said it was a super easy river fold.

All we are saying is that if you call turn, folding river is insane.

Re: RESULTS
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how does he ever have a straight on the turn? he has a set here all day, which is why i said folding turn is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you said it was a super easy river fold.

All we are saying is that if you call turn, folding river is insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

DYP said that he put irish on a straight (which i think is way off) but if true, then when board pairs the worst possible card (since KJ could be in DYP's range, along with 88 obv) irish doesnt shove a his 'straight' on the river.

so its still a fold.
we're allowed to fold very strong hands getting good prices against good opponents sometimes. this is one of those situations, this is never a bluff.

Re: RESULTS
 

I have logged thousands of hands I have been in with irishcurve, and I think this is a fold.