sort of gross spot on the river
 

30-60, passive game here in Dallas.

I've got the kill UTG with 9-2-3-4 double suited. Three limpers, blinds check, 6-way pot.

Flop comes

9-2-4 rainbow

blinds check, i check, UTG+1 bets, two people call, I call.

Turn

4 still rainbow

I lead out, three people call

River

A

I......?

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

Strange spot... any 99xx hand should raise the flop or the turn. AAxx should often raise preflop, but in any case with six to the flop I wouldn't usually expect one player to hold two aces. And I would think that if someone has A4xx, they'd either fold the flop (if their low potential was busted) or raise the turn (if they had something like A34x). But you did say they were passive.
With two callers, I lead out here every time, but with three villains to the river I start to think it's likely that someone has A45x/A34x or the like. I would check/call.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

check/call cause you can win max. half pot. I think normally someone with 4xxx raise the turn so I guess you win 80% of this spots the high pot.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

If you actually think he's 80% likely to be good for the high here, then he should be leading out. The question isn't how much of the pot he can win, but how much of the new money on the river he can expect to win...

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

I like a c/r on the turn.

As played I lead out on the river. Very possible someone has 35 and reraises and you want to trap dead money in here. I think your hand is good, not worried about 99xx, only AAxx which is too nitty to worry about imo in this spot. Lead out and call or reraise a raise.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

only AAxx which is too nitty to worry about

Did you forget A4xx, or do you have some unmentioned reason for discounting that possibility as well?

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
only AAxx which is too nitty to worry about

Did you forget A4xx, or do you have some unmentioned reason for discounting that possibility as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not discounting the possibility, but that's monsters under the bed. Bet!

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

c/f sucks. b/f sucks. b/r sucks. c/r is probably a little too adventurous.

That leaves c/c and b/c. If it had been another low card I think we could have expected someone else to put in a bet on the river, but given that it was the A I think there is too high a chance that the river could get checked through.

If you bet the river you could easily get called by several non-wheel lows that would have checked. A4 is a minor concern, but I think you net more betting the river (and calling any raise) than you do checking and calling.

I vote bet

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

I'd play it to not push out any people.. nobody has AA here or 99.. 95% of the time anyway. A4 is a possibility. I think I'd just lead.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

So what are these three people supposed to be calling to the river with? I can believe that two of them would have A3xx, but surely not all three of them? The problem I see is that with this sort of strange dry board, there just aren't that many hands that both call preflop *and* call a big bet on the turn (unless of course opponents are very bad). A3x, 235x, A24x, maybe 3456 or AAxx? It's just peculiar to see three people hanging around on a board like this and I think that you have to bump up your estimate of someone holding the case 4 accordingly - and most of the time is someone is playing a 4 they'll have an ace as well. Personally I expect to see someone show down A45x. Of course you could be lucky and have someone raise you while holding 2345, but I don't think it's likely...

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

well it was a 6 way pot preflop.. so it can't be THAT tight of a game.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

i probably b/c, since game is passive unlikely to get raised by A4 and good AA would have raised preflop so less unlikely too.

c/c ok too since very unlikely to scoop and might pick off bluff

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

I prefer a bet-call line as the pot is huge and it will open up some money from people with random low hands who would have checked if checked to but will value call your bet hoping to get a piece of the pot. With the pot that large and with that many players, I don't think a check will induce worse hands to bet. If you get raised, you have to at least call as a wheel is a likely holding. But I'm okay with re-raising if you think you can trap some people in the middle to be carved up.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

I'm okay with re-raising

Re-raising here is insane. Hands that might raise here that put (some) money in your pocket: 2345?. Hands that cap and leave you standing there looking stupid and with no part of the pot: AAxx, A4xx. Which range is larger?

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

this is a pretty simple b/c for me. I think you miss way too much value when you check and it checks through, than the few times you get raised, put in an extra bet, and lose to a better high. too many people will NOT bet here with the nut lo in a multi-way pot because they are afraid of being raised and quartered. I want a bet going in on the river with my hi hand.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

So what happened in this hand? You made me curious...

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

i bet the river, utg raises, all fold to me, i call, he has 9's full.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

9's full of aces?

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

9s full of 4s. (2) 4s and (1) 9 on board. 9s full of aces on that board would be divine intervention.

Re: sort of gross spot on the river
 

In terms of the close call between b/c and c/c what are everyone's thoughts on the image value of showing that you will value bet a non-nut hand? Will this make a slightly less optimal play correct in this instance?