Is this common?
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

CO (t4910)
Button (t705)
SB (t11440)
Hero (t15787)
UTG (t7920)
UTG+1 (t6635)
MP1 (t35671)
MP2 (t17210)
MP3 (t5802)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls t800.

Flop: (t2160) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t5415 (All-In)</font>

Re: Is this common?
 

fold PF.

Re: Is this common?
 

Tough spot, I agree with the fold PF. Give more respect to the UTG raiser barring a read.

Re: Is this common?
 

By people who are lost preflop, yes, this is actually common. My guess is at the level you are at (buy in?) that it's not as common though.

I fold pre as well, but I'm interested in likely ranges for villian here. Such a massive overbet seems like some scared overs that just want the pot but it could be mid pairs like 66,88,99 trying to "shut you out" as well I guess.

Re: Is this common?
 

UTG+1 is very loose.

PF, this is an easy call with the stack sizes.

Re: Is this common?
 

This is the Pstars 150. I have only played it a handful of times. I am curious about this because this huge overbet recurred many times in this tournament.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is very loose.

PF, this is an easy call with the stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

16.5bb stacks, oop, i'm pretty sure this is bad, unless you're planning on and are able to (not vs calling station) bluff him off of a bunch of boards that you don't hit.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is very loose.

PF, this is an easy call with the stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol?

Re: Is this common?
 

Joe, this is really bad preflop. Like no matter absolutely what.

Re: Is this common?
 

if hes that loose shoving PF&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; calling.

Re: Is this common?
 

Wow, I'm speechless. How big does your stack have to be inorder to call this PF?

Re: Is this common?
 

In general, I don't like to make decisions easy on my opponents by pushing pf. I'm unlikely to push pf when I am behind, and when villain is short.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'm speechless. How big does your stack have to be inorder to call this PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot bigger than that. I hate the call preflop. You have to give more respect to UTG raisers. Just because he is loose preflop doesn't mean he's raising rags UTG. He probably has a mid pocket pair.

Re: Is this common?
 

It's unlikely that he has a mid pocket pair, but it is a consideration. By the time he puts a continuation bet in I'm getting 4:1 and villain will be close to pot committed.


Anyhow, my question was not about my preflop play in the blinds; it is what do you make of the overbet

Guess you guys don't like this one either:

PokerStars Game #8093667943: Tournament #40452636, $150+$12 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2007/01/23 - 23:39:30 (ET)
Table '40452636 21' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: stockrock (1595 in chips)
Seat 2: keithrob1 (3890 in chips)
Seat 3: i'm ez money (10181 in chips)
Seat 4: Locutus2002 (42047 in chips)
Seat 5: TheReader23 (19755 in chips)
Seat 6: WizTrust (10390 in chips)
Seat 7: Pat Flanagan (20899 in chips)
Seat 8: Patsy130 (12403 in chips)
Seat 9: W Snipes (13669 in chips)
stockrock: posts the ante 30
keithrob1: posts the ante 30
i'm ez money: posts the ante 30
Locutus2002: posts the ante 30
TheReader23: posts the ante 30
WizTrust: posts the ante 30
Pat Flanagan: posts the ante 30
Patsy130: posts the ante 30
W Snipes: posts the ante 30
i'm ez money: posts small blind 300
Locutus2002: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Locutus2002 [5c Th]
TheReader23: folds
WizTrust: folds
Pat Flanagan: folds
Patsy130: raises 600 to 1200
W Snipes: folds
stockrock: folds
keithrob1: folds
i'm ez money: folds
Locutus2002: calls 600

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'm speechless. How big does your stack have to be inorder to call this PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

your stack isnt the effective stack wtffff youve been around for like two years

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'm speechless. How big does your stack have to be inorder to call this PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

your stack isnt the effective stack wtffff youve been around for like two years

[/ QUOTE ]

and has live results that are as good as almost anyone here (incl steve and gobbo)

the T5o isnt AS bad, but you're still better off folding.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero (t15787)
UTG+1 (t6635)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls t800.

[/ QUOTE ]

1)what are you hoping to flop
2)your chances of outplaying him are...
3)what are you hoping to flop

btw I would call there

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I'm speechless. How big does your stack have to be inorder to call this PF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your hand would benefit from there being some other chips in the pot (aside from the SB's). Heads-Up, out-of-position with a barely-marginal hand isn't so hot. You need to hit that flop HARD to feel good about being ahead.

I agree w/shaundeeb when he says shoving PF&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; calling.

But since you called, I think check-folding is correct.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero (t15787)
UTG+1 (t6635)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls t800.

[/ QUOTE ]

1)what are you hoping to flop
2)your chances of outplaying him are...
3)what are you hoping to flop

btw I would call there

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure you just blew my mind. Is that a typo?

Re: Is this common?
 

nope...he's good 40%, maybe well over that, and when he is he's dominating almost always

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nope...he's good 40%, maybe well over that, and when he is he's dominating almost always

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhhh, you mean you call the flop. Alright then, somehow I read that as you would call preflop...

Re: Is this common?
 

So what do you make of the overbet?

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you make of the overbet?

[/ QUOTE ]

AK/random flush draw/44/66

with about equal weighing

Re: Is this common?
 

0evg0 --

Don't forget QQ-88 (especially TT-88).

--Nate

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In general, I don't like to make decisions easy on my opponents by pushing pf. I'm unlikely to push pf when I am behind, and when villain is short.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think you are behind PF than why are you calling your raise? To be behind he either has a bigger ace or a pp so you never know which one it is when you flop a pair you are still guessing if your kicker is good or if he has acehigh on non Ax boards.

Since you said he was loose with your stack shoving PF is the only way to play if hes opening a wide range here he must also be folding a lot of it for 14bbs more.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero (t15787)
UTG+1 (t6635)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls t800.

[/ QUOTE ]

1)what are you hoping to flop
2)your chances of outplaying him are...
3)what are you hoping to flop

btw I would call there

[/ QUOTE ]

the only justification for calling with a plan is to c/shove any flop but I don't think you are deep enough for that even against a lag who is c-betting every flop. As he will be getting close to 3 to 1 on the shove over most standard c-bet amounts. If he c-bets a larger % of the pot he could be getting 4 or 5 to 1 after his bet.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you make of the overbet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I take the overbet as weakness but it could be a gutshot hand an overs or a FD, all which have lots of equity against you. When you can you are usually slightly ahead or way behind. Also getting such an awful price there is no reason to call his shove postflop.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
0evg0 --

Don't forget QQ-88 (especially TT-88).

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

people c/r here or just regularly cbet 99x more often than doing this goofy overbet. trust me, it's one of many special online tells you get from playing way too much online poker.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
0evg0 --

Don't forget QQ-88 (especially TT-88).

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

people c/r here or just regularly cbet 99x more often than doing this goofy overbet. trust me, it's one of many special online tells you get from playing way too much online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

0evg0 --

Maybe I've played too many SNGs or something. I would put lots of those middle pairs in the range. "I think my hand is good!" + "I'm terrified to play my hand!" often equals a bizarre shove.

--Nate

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I take the overbet as weakness

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my initial reaction. I had to choose between the donkish overbet and the donkish bluff.

My wife settled it when she looked over and said he has overs, you have to call. (Level 1 thinking)

It turned out to be the donkish bluff (KQo) which did not improve.

Which brings me back to my initial question: Is this common?

Re: Is this common?
 

with two diamonds on board likely pair semi-bluff. Harrington Vol. 2 page 27 says, "When the board shows two of a suit and the opponent makes a big bet or moves all-in, most top players would think that a semi-bluff flush draw is now the most likely hand they're facing". Problem with overbet for villain is only hands that would call are hands that have villain beat.

Re: Is this common?
 

"How big does your stack have to be inorder to call this PF? "

I believe you are missing a key component here, your opponents stack.

I think i call the flop against a very weak opponent and expect AK, AQ, AJ a REAL LOT of the time.

Re: Is this common?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I take the overbet as weakness

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my initial reaction. I had to choose between the donkish overbet and the donkish bluff.

My wife settled it when she looked over and said he has overs, you have to call. (Level 1 thinking)

It turned out to be the donkish bluff (KQo) which did not improve.

Which brings me back to my initial question: Is this common?

[/ QUOTE ]
In my experience, no (the pure bluff w overs). I'd say it's evg's + nate's range way more often, 90%+ so.