Why one should FPS as a villager
 

We must understand the goal behind FPSing. As a villager, your FPS should benefit the village objectively. You should want OTHER people to FPS. I will redefine FPSing for the term of this post.

There is one major benefit to FPSing, and one minor benefit.

The major benefit of FPSing is to make wolves miss the seer (or power villagers) when they decide to night-kill.

Any FPS must be done with that goal in mind.

When thinking about FPSing, you are thinking about giving the wolves false information about the roles of people. Every FPS must have this goal in mind. Your goal must not be to avoid lynch because you think village is stupid. Your goal must not be to play. Your only goal is force the wolves to make a suboptimal night-kill, whatever it is.

Freerolling is an example of a good tactic one uses to make wolves miss. Dropping fake seer hints is another example of a good tactic.

I've already discussed freerolling. I'll link to it later.

By dropping fake seer hints, you don't want to look like you're just drawing a kill. What you want to do is to act like a seer. You want to communicate your peeks effectively and unobtrusively as possible. Remember to step it up a little if your "peeks" are getting lynched. DMK is a master of doing this, and he should probably be writing this section, but that's the general gist of it.

Be blatant when the seer is going to be blatant (d2 of a 9 player turbo wolf lynched d1). Be subtle when the seer is going to be subtle (most of the time). Don't look like you're drawing a night-kill. Just give hints as effectively as possible. And use this metagame when you're seering. It's all for naught if you don't use this cover.

Faking seer to avoid lynch is not an example of a tactic that one should use liberally, because it benefits wolf games so much. When thinking about this play, make sure that is about making a wolf make suboptimal kills, because it provides a huge downside the above two plays DO NOT do (screwing with village lynches which generally shouldn't happen).

Effective in spots, yes, but not as hugely +EV as the other two tactics I have given.

In any case, the entire point of FPSing as a villager is to screw with wolf kills so they miss the seer. Not doing it causes seers to get killed, which makes villages lose.

There are two level to werewolf: The village lynch, and the wolf kill. Not playing werewolf at the second level will lose games that should be won.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

no

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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no

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yes

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

If villagers were more concerned with finding the wolves than outsmarting them, villages would win more than they do.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

maybe

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

what I would like to see happen more often is more villagers making the following statements near-nighttime who usually don't "FPS". Consider this the first step. It's very +EV, especially when it comes from somebody who usually doesn't do this stuff.


"If I die tonight, let it be known that I thought that X, Y, and Z were villagers." X is the number of seer peeks that should have happened by then.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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no

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yes

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how was LOTR btw?

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

FPS gets a bad name from random villagers doing crazy things such as claiming Gollum. However,

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"If I die tonight, let it be known that I thought that X, Y, and Z were villagers." X is the number of seer peeks that should have happened by then.

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this is not really FPS
it's a 100% true statement.

That one should make, to give the seer cover.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

lol crosspostaments

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

I wouldn't have claimed Gollum as any other role than who I claimed as

that's all I'll say about that [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
AND FINE, EVEN THEN IT WAS BAD. FINE.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

[ QUOTE ]
what I would like to see happen more often is more villagers making the following statements near-nighttime who usually don't "FPS". Consider this the first step. It's very +EV, especially when it comes from somebody who usually doesn't do this stuff.


"If I die tonight, let it be known that I thought that X, Y, and Z were villagers." X is the number of seer peeks that should have happened by then.

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The Werewolves Prayer

Please, oh please, let all villagers post the above every night before lynch
This allows us to ram the village hard, nightly
We can lead them around like a dog on a leash
As they lynch the villagers we set up
and clear the wolves we want
Eventually, we can kill the seer, as they'll make it retardedly obvious who that is
But it won't matter, because we'll have pwned the village

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

This new FPS trend is horrible. Every villager wants to be a hero or do something fancy. No one wants to be part of a team.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

I would've claimed as Merry, Pippin or Frodo/Sam (OMFG BRILLIANCE). I don't think it's horrible, but probably not great.

Not as fundamentally sound as the two FPS's I've seen though.

It comes down to this: If you can buy a power villager an extra night, without screwing with anything village is doing, do it.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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It comes down to this: If you can buy a power villager an extra night, without screwing with anything village is doing, do it.

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You can never, ever, do the first without doing the second.

If you've confused the wolves, you've confused the villagers. If you confuse villagers, they lynch you. Which screws with whatever the villager was doing.

People need to keep their noses out of the power villager's business, and let them do their own thing.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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It comes down to this: If you can buy a power villager an extra night, without screwing with anything village is doing, do it.


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You can do this without FPSing, causing confusion, and potentially damaging the game easily by leaving SUBTLE hints that you may be a power role while still being a contributing villager.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

I like to FPS the grocery store.

12 items or less? [censored] you, I have 13 items! Well, it depends how you count two six packs and a bottle of lotion.
Buy one get one free? No thanks! I'll pay for both.
I like to open the bread, grab some peanut butter and rock a sando right there in aisle 5 and then repeatedly try to run the crust through the self-scanner.
I ask the stock ladies if they have any mayo, "If you know what I mean ^^"
At the deli, I always ask to have my meat sliced horizontally.
Fruit is a wonderland. Bring your own scale to weigh it. Poke it with medieval medical instruments. Juggle some melons. Perform Freudian therapy on the pineapples. Shave the kiwi. Have contests with other shoppers as to who can fit more grapes in their mouth.


You can probably see why I don't play WW any more...

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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It comes down to this: If you can buy a power villager an extra night, without screwing with anything village is doing, do it.


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You can do this without FPSing, causing confusion, and potentially damaging the game easily by leaving SUBTLE hints that you may be a power role while still being a contributing villager.

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Didn't I say this above? Did you actually read my post?

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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It comes down to this: If you can buy a power villager an extra night, without screwing with anything village is doing, do it.


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You can do this without FPSing, causing confusion, and potentially damaging the game easily by leaving SUBTLE hints that you may be a power role while still being a contributing villager.

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Didn't I say this above? Did you actually read my post?

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subtle being the key word

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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This new FPS trend is horrible. luckayluck and lastchance want to be a hero or do something fancy. they don't want to be part of a team.

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[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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It comes down to this: If you can buy a power villager an extra night, without screwing with anything village is doing, do it.


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You can do this without FPSing, causing confusion, and potentially damaging the game easily by leaving SUBTLE hints that you may be a power role while still being a contributing villager.

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All you need to do is be right. That's what wolves look for when they seer hunt - people who are correct. You can do all the fancy [censored] you want, but if you're wrong about everything, they'll never eat you. And if you are right about everything, they'll eat you regardless of whatever else you do.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

btw,

fpsing is like winning a medal in the military. if you try to win a medal all the time, you're gonna get yourself and your buddies killed. however, when the opportunity is actually correct for you to be a hero, then you can accomplish great things.

all things (especially fps) in moderation

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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"If I die tonight, let it be known that I thought that X, Y, and Z were villagers." X is the number of seer peeks that should have happened by then.

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Depends on the number of peeks you have to give to be believable.

In 9 player turbos, the correctness of this play is obvious. The more peeks on must give to be believable, the less one should be blatant (either in terms of seering or fake-seering).

For example, boiler's play in CYOA was "confusing." It caused Zurvan to not know who the Bard was.

This is obviously +EV and perfectly fine.

Replace bard with seer and it's fine.

If wolves are confused as to who the power roles are, villagers are confused as to who the power roles are.

You should NEVER make it clearer as to who the seer actually is. Make it murkier, confuse villagers if it helps you confuse wolves and doesn't screw with lynches too bad.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

OKAY GUYS
I WILL FPS FROM NOW ON
HOWEVER
FPS SHOULD NOW BE:


"FANCILY PLAY, SUBTLELY"

I AM NOW A GREAT WEREWOLF PLAYER

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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OKAY GUYS
I WILL FPS FROM NOW ON
HOWEVER
FPS SHOULD NOW BE:


"FANCILY PLAY, SUBTLELY"

I AM NOW A GREAT WEREWOLF PLAYER

[/ QUOTE ]

btw I'm serious
I'll start doing this from now on

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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For example, boiler's play in CYOA was "confusing." It caused Zurvan to not know who the Bard was.

This is obviously +EV and perfectly fine.


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Yeah, and I was the villager. So, he confused the village, and not the wolves, since the wolf killed the real Bard that night.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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For example, boiler's play in CYOA was "confusing." It caused Zurvan to not know who the Bard was.

This is obviously +EV and perfectly fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and I was the villager. So, he confused the village, and not the wolves, since the wolf killed the real Bard that night.

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The wolf did kill the real Bard. However, the wolf is likely to be confused there as to who the real Bard is. He killed KM because she was "clear." That's why the play works (objectively speaking).

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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If villagers were more concerned with finding the wolves than outsmarting them, villages would win more than they do.

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Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

Says the seer who claimed bard. :P

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

And yes, I know that wolf-finding is way, way more important than this (in games where village isn't an overwhelming favorite due to brokenness), and dmk's insanely effective fake-seering is nowhere near as valuable as traz/gt1t/shortline's ability to read souls.

However, I do think dmk's fake-seering is more valuable than Zurvan's obvious villagering.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

FPS as a power villager =/= FPS as a villager

VILLAGER DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FPS EFFECTIVELY

Power villagers occasionally do. Such as peeking a power role that you can claim, while letting that person know that you've peeked them. It's rare, but could never work as a villager.

If bram isn't able to effectively convey to KM that he's the seer & peeked her, she counterclaims, and he gets lynched the next day.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

1) Cover for the seer is not the #1 priority for villagers. It's at best #3. Finding wolves and Convincing other villagers that you're village are 1 and 2, not necessarily in that order.

2) "FPS" or false claims as a power role are completely different situations than when done as a plain villager. You want to have a thread on how to play angel/other non-seer power village, go for it. It's not the same as plain villager moves.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

** EXTREMELY RECENT EXAMPLE **

If Eskimo had FPS'd there and known that blowing up the traitor was not the best move, it would have been brilliant

He would have outed the Jester. Everyone would praise his brilliance

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like to FPS the grocery store.

12 items or less? [censored] you, I have 13 items! Well, it depends how you count two six packs and a bottle of lotion.
Buy one get one free? No thanks! I'll pay for both.
I like to open the bread, grab some peanut butter and rock a sando right there in aisle 5 and then repeatedly try to run the crust through the self-scanner.
I ask the stock ladies if they have any mayo, "If you know what I mean ^^"
At the deli, I always ask to have my meat sliced horizontally.
Fruit is a wonderland. Bring your own scale to weigh it. Poke it with medieval medical instruments. Juggle some melons. Perform Freudian therapy on the pineapples. Shave the kiwi. Have contests with other shoppers as to who can fit more grapes in their mouth.


You can probably see why I don't play WW any more...

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so much

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

It would be better if this discussion had no references to ongoing games at all.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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1) Cover for the seer is not the #1 priority for villagers. It's at best #3. Finding wolves and Convincing other villagers that you're village are 1 and 2, not necessarily in that order.

2) "FPS" or false claims as a power role are completely different situations than when done as a plain villager. You want to have a thread on how to play angel/other non-seer power village, go for it. It's not the same as plain villager moves.

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I love doing #2, yes. I know false claims as a power role are things that should be done in 1/20 games, at most (this is probably an accurate number).

Also, IMHO, in order from most valuable to least valuable is:
1. Finding wolves. (and villagers, though obviously wolves are more valuable)
2. Faking seer.
3. Convincing other villagers that you're a villager.

Why? Because there's no real way to do 3, and if you (or look like you) care about 3, then you're going to look wolfy (counter-productive, I know). If you do 1 and 2 (and especially 1) you're going to do 3 well. Of course, if you're a villager, try your best not to get lynched, but I mean, that's like the extent of it.

Seeking to do 3 will not actually accomplish 3, whereas seeking to do 1 and 2 will accomplish 1 and 2 (even if you have to subtle about 2).

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

Note: For the purposes of this conversation, I define FPS as anything which deliberately messes with wolf night-kills.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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FPS as a power villager =/= FPS as a villager

VILLAGER DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO FPS EFFECTIVELY

Power villagers occasionally do. Such as peeking a power role that you can claim, while letting that person know that you've peeked them. It's rare, but could never work as a villager.

If bram isn't able to effectively convey to KM that he's the seer & peeked her, she counterclaims, and he gets lynched the next day.

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I would argue that "faking" or "FPS-ing" only as a power villager really isn't "fancy." It's exploitable.

Zurvan, if you only claim a village power role when you're a power villager, but you've actually got a different role than you claim, it doesn't help your team win. You're confusing the village by claiming something that you're not and you're helping the wolves (because they know you'll only claim any power role if you happen to be a power villager).

I guess it's good if you *know* that there's someone more valuable to protect from night kills of the wolves.

This is kinda rambly, but I'd appreciate feedback. (Does any of this make sense?) I may just need to have my head examined. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

[ QUOTE ]
** EXTREMELY RECENT EXAMPLE **

If Eskimo had FPS'd there and known that blowing up the traitor was not the best move, it would have been brilliant

He would have outed the Jester. Everyone would praise his brilliance

[/ QUOTE ]

i did see the opening. chose not to take it.

all a man has in life is his balls and his word. and i dont break neither for nobody!

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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Zurvan, if you only claim a village power role when you're a power villager, but you've actually got a different role than you claim, it doesn't help your team win. You're confusing the village by claiming something that you're not and you're helping the wolves (because they know you'll only claim any power role if you happen to be a power villager).

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Mixing up roles is extremely effective at times. It's not blantantly -EV, and in the cases where wolves need to know who's what, it's obviously extremely effective. Obviously, it's not effective in other points.

Re: Why one should FPS as a villager
 

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Also, IMHO, in order from most valuable to least valuable is:
1. Finding wolves. (and villagers, though obviously wolves are more valuable)
2. Faking seer.
3. Convincing other villagers that you're a villager.


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http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3972/orlyup4.jpg

How can faking seer possibly be your second highest priority?

Due respect, but somebody with your metagame is not believable when you claim seer, even when you really are the seer. They only believe you when you're dead. This may get you an extra peek when you're actually the seer, but it's just confusing to the village.

I agree that finding wolves should be your number one priority. Protecting the seer is secondary imo. "Clearing yourself" should not be on the forefront of your mind (but you addressed that already).

I just don't understand why faking seer is so important.