100 NL trick spot with KK
 

Villan is 17/10/2.9

No reads other than that--I obviously usually raise this PF but I mix in calls once in awhile.

Can I fold to the turn bet in position?
Fold the river for sure?

It looked to me like he had qjs or kjs...or a slowplayed 33 or 44.

Let me know what you think.



Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Absolute-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|[color=#C00000]saw showdown</font>

BB ($312.30)
UTG ($93.35)
MP ($119.43)
Button ($201.95)
Hero ($120)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
[color=#CC3333]UTG raises to $4</font>, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, Hero calls $3.50, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($9) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($9) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]Hero bets $6</font>, [color=#CC3333]UTG raises to $20</font>, Hero calls $14.

River: ($49) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]UTG bets $69.35 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $-20.35

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

I would re-raise the turn, I think he is playing QQ, AQ, or AK. If he had a J, he would have bet it on the flop. I don't think he slow plays top pair in position so you can catch up.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

#1 reraise pf
#2 bet the flop
#3 either raise the turn (so you know where u stand) or fold. calling wont give u any information and you dont have any draws (except 2 K`s but that is neglible)

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would re-raise the turn, I think he is playing QQ, AQ, or AK. If he had a J, he would have bet it on the flop. I don't think he slow plays top pair in position so you can catch up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see him checking behind with a weaker jack (qj, kj) or with a big hand like a set. Doesn't re-raising the turn lessen the value of my hand because he never calls with anything I'm beating and he folds everything I beat?

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
#1 reraise pf
#2 bet the flop
#3 either raise the turn (so you know where u stand) or fold. calling wont give u any information and you dont have any draws (except 2 K`s but that is neglible)

[/ QUOTE ]

To re-raise a tight UTG raiser from the SB looks extremely strong and gives away alot of info about my hand--this is why I chose to smooth call. Look to my previous reply about re-raising the turn--I'm not calling to get information, I'm calling because I think that I'm ahead here alot of the time. My bet on the turn could look like a bluff and I dont see a very tight player like him over betting the pot on the river with a bluff.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

Why did you call on the turn if you're not going to call on the river?
I think he has a J, good fold.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

the trophy gave me high hopes for this thread. i was disappointed when the HH was unreadable.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you call on the turn if you're not going to call on the river?
I think he has a J, good fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call on the turn because I think I can be ahead here alot of the time. After I check the flop my turn lead looks somewhat like a bluff--I can see him re-raising me here with 77-10s. I didn't call the river because of the size of his bet.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

Don't [censored] around out of position. Reraise it preflop.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't [censored] around out of position. Reraise it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say it is a matter of preference whether to call or raise this hand in this situation PF. Like I said, re-raising a tight UTG raiser from the SB basically turns my hand face up--we aren't gonna do that without a premium hand.

If your gonna post, make it something useful not just a generic comment about the PF play

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't [censored] around out of position. Reraise it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say it is a matter of preference whether to call or raise this hand in this situation PF. Like I said, re-raising a tight UTG raiser from the SB basically turns my hand face up--we aren't gonna do that without a premium hand.

If your gonna post, make it something useful not just a generic comment about the PF play

[/ QUOTE ]
Will he raise AJ UTG? If yes fold if no call. If yes, you should RERAISE PREFLOP BECAUSE YOU ARE OUT OF POSITION.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

This is 5 handed, he'll raise with quite a bit UTG.

And shorthanded, a re-raise pf doesn't have to be AA,KK,AK.

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

if you only reraise pf with AA,KK then, well...something is wrong

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

I think villian shows up with a flopped set way more than he shows up w air here or something crazily played like QQ to justify a call

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you call on the turn if you're not going to call on the river?
I think he has a J, good fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call on the turn because I think I can be ahead here alot of the time. After I check the flop my turn lead looks somewhat like a bluff--I can see him re-raising me here with 77-10s. I didn't call the river because of the size of his bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So...if they bet too much and you think you have the best hand, then you fold?

Re: 100 NL trick spot with KK
 

Wow, this hand fascinates me for some reason, and I have a whole bunch to say about it.

Barry G states in his book that it is usually best to define your hand on the early streets thus making your hand much easier to play on the later streets which in most forms of poker, the bets are bigger, and bigger mistakes are made. I think this is the mistake you made.

I'm all about mixing up your play, and I applaud you for getting creative. Now that you have done that, let us analyze whether or not this is a good spot to get creative in the future. On this board, your hand is basically as strong as bottom set. Now this thinking is a bit outside the box so don't jump on me quite yet. There are two differences between this hand and a set. 1. You have much better equity over a draw due to a sets redraw potential. 2. You are way ahead of overpairs. But, this board is not draw heavy at all, and there is only one overpair, so you are basically playing KK for (theoretical) set value here. But, this doesn't really work too well as a metagame strategy because the nature of flopping sets automatically randomizes when you will play a cold called raise from the sb with a deceptively stong hand post flop. So I don't like how you played it too much. I think a better spot to cold call with KK would be against a tricky aggressive player who will constantly put you to difficult decisions when you want to play pot control out of position. Namely, someone that will valuebet thinly. If someone sees you cold call from the blinds with a hand like KK or AA (I don't like it with QQ as there are two many chances an ace or king hit), and check call all three streets, you better believe that if they are a thinking player, they will likely take at least a street off in future situations that are played out similarly. The problem with this of course is that it is rarely correct to play a hand in this manner against an aggressive tricky opponent who is capable of firing 3 barrels very thinly. In fact, the only situation where this may add some EV is when you cc a hand like 88 and a dry board hits.


Now on to the hand. Your hand is under-repped here so it is going to be correct to open up your calling range on this river. However that river bet says to me, "I think that you have a hand in this spot that is strong enough to call me" If it were a pot sized bet, I would likely look him up but this is just a bit too much to call with. It really looks like 33/44 that wants action from a Jack.