\"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

Playing 5/10 PLO at the Aviation Club in Paris. I don't remember the exact hand, but basically, it was me heads up vs another guy, and very little dead money. We got all in for about 1.5K each on the flop and tabled our hands, it was something like top two+SD for me, top two+FD for him. Turn is a flush card, but we fill up on the river and split. We talk about it a little bit as the dealer is collecting the cards, and I express my relief, when the dealer interrupts me: 'Excuse me sir.. don't forget the dealer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]'.

W..T..F???? Hell, even if I win big it's up to me whether I want to tip. And I usually do, split pot or not. But 'don't forget the dealer'? WTF? I have never ever intentionally stiffed a dealer. Sometimes I get caught up in the excitement and forget, then several hands pass, and it's off my mind. Tough [censored] break. It happens, and while I think dealers deserve their tips, they don't deserve it enough to warrant asking for it.

Problem is, what am I gonna do? Antagonize a dealer? That can't be a smart thing to do, considering how much of your money passes through his hands. I know
I would be a little quicker to 'accidently' muck someones cards if I felt like it. There's plenty of room for dealers to screw you, even within the rules (especially in Paris where they have no cameras [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]). Similarly, there's plenty of room for them to make life a little easier for you, without being dishonest of course. That's worth a couple extra bucks to me.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Problem is, what am I gonna do? Antagonize a dealer? That can't be a smart thing to do, considering how much of your money passes through his hands. I know
I would be a little quicker to 'accidently' muck someones cards if I felt like it. There's plenty of room for dealers to screw you, even within the rules (especially in Paris where they have no cameras [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]). Similarly, there's plenty of room for them to make life a little easier for you, without being dishonest of course. That's worth a couple extra bucks to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

On principle alone I wouldn't be tipping him anymore for the rest of that session (meaning if he came back to the table a couple hours later I'd treat him like any other dealer). I also would have responded with a simple "I didn't" when he said that to you. I [censored] hate people that expect tips like that. I realize that its part of their wages, but they also realize that its not a mandatory thing. In this pot a tip wasn't called for.

Realistically, there's not much he can do to you, as long as you're careful. Protect your hand, and make sure you don't make any of those tiny errors that are often over looked.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

I think everyone that has not played in this room shoudl avoid commenting on how far out of live this dealer was. In most places in the US the dealer would have been completely out of line; however, that is France and i have no idea what the customs are there.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

I only tip out of pots I win, as a rule. I figure if I didn't make money on the hand, no reason the dealer should.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

I don't care if he was out of line or not. I was talking about what my reaction would be in that situation. My comments stand. If its custom there for a player to tip in that situation, I don't give a [censored]. Until a place makes it a rule to pay the dealer after every hand, I reserve my right to tip or not tip WHENEVER THE [censored] I LIKE! (little Rounders homage there)

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

This is Paris; don't forget the dealer.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

That's pretty classless.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

You might have to chalk this up to it being a different custom in another country. I've tipped waitresses and bar girls in Europe and they get confused. Tipping isn't the same everywhere.

I'm very pro dealer. But if there's a dealer that says something like that, or says "nice hand", or gives me a speech about how he spends his tips on his kids, or how he only makes $4 an hour... he's cut off. There are too many good dealers that work hard and don't beg. They take their stiffs.

And if the dealer doesn't say thank you...he's cut off too. I'm not talking about if he forgets to say it once. But if he drops $1 after $1 for a down and never says thanks to anyone, he's cut off.

Thats the only thing I ask for. Do your job well, don't beg, and appreciate it when a player tips you.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

.. and I'll say this for the 569th time. I tip. I play 1/2 NL and I tip a $1 every pot that's more than $20. I tip $2 if the pot is relly big (more than $120 or so).

... but, I don't like it. Because, as you said, the guy is basically a referee. The junior referee, to be sure. And I don't think there is any doubt that the guy/lady is human and their judgement is colored towards the good tippers in such matters, even if subconciously. it's a big problem, but I don't expect the system to change.

I've never had a dealer explicitly ask me for a toke (but I have played live maybe 75 times or so), but if I did, I will make this pledge: I will say "buddy, I tip every pot that isn't piddling, but just for that, I ain't tipping this one" and I'd tell the floor about it.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

It could be European in nature to ask like that, but I'm not sure. When I played in Vienna at a simple little 3/6 table, I had a dealer flat out tell me I wasn't tipping her and neither was the player to my left. I am also pro-dealer, but was taken aback just a little at her assumption that she deserved to be tipped.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

Dealers, like waiters and cabbies, size up customers as to whether they know about tipping or not. Some dealers freak out when a pot as split that they'll get stiffed (actually they do better because two players tip). Regardless of his logic (you're a foreiner, you're a minority, you're a jerk, whatever)you'd like to "get him" without getting him angry

Smile, put you toke right in the play area and say "My mother brought me up better than to forget to tip" This is hugely embarassing to anyone who asks for a tip but just self-deprecating enough to allow the Dealer to save face. After a few hands get up and mention it to the floor supervisor and say "asking for a tip is twice as gauche (french for stupid/rude) as not giving a tip" The supervisor will make a note to tell the Dealer privately long after you are gone

Its more important to win the war than the battle

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
4. Anything that's posted about ad nauseum. For example, tipping

[/ QUOTE ]

A quote from the "Don't Post About" sticky. If this thread turns into a pros/cons of tipping thread, or starts to become a flame war (unfortunately tipping threads often do) it will have to be locked.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]

A quote from the "Don't Post About" sticky. If this thread turns into a pros/cons of tipping thread, or starts to become a flame war (unfortunately tipping threads ALWAYS do) it will have to be locked.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP and how true it is.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A quote from the "Don't Post About" sticky. If this thread turns into a pros/cons of tipping thread, or starts to become a flame war (unfortunately tipping threads ALWAYS do) it will have to be locked.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP and how true it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen a tipping thread in year that hasn't been the same old trash over and over.

\"Don\'t forget( to tip ) the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
the dealer interrupts me: 'Excuse me sir.. don't forget the dealer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]'.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have replied, "I certainly won't," and it would be true. Look what a memorable impression he made on you.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4. Anything that's posted about ad nauseum. For example, tipping

[/ QUOTE ]

A quote from the "Don't Post About" sticky. If this thread turns into a pros/cons of tipping thread, or starts to become a flame war (unfortunately tipping threads often do) it will have to be locked.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


People actually read the stickies, this is amazing to me...

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

Only the moderators so they can excerpt them every time a tipping thread breaks out. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

I thought the French (and Europeans in general) have gratuities built into restaurant / bar tabs etc. and thus the lack of common American-style tipping on top.

In fact I had thought I read a thread about the Aviation Club that stated that there was no tipping and that this was accounted for by a very high rake.

Then again, I could serious have no clue what the hell I'm talking about.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

I've never stiffed a dealer in my life this would have been the first time and the rest of the time at his table
and I don't care what the custom is.
Here most places thats grounds for dismissal

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

If the dealer is a typical French woman, just give her the whole pot. O/t, call the floor and ask if it's customary for the dealer to say what he said. He said it in front of the table, you say it in front of the floor at the table. If it's customary, tip or not. If the dealer let's tipping affect dispute resolution, please get his name, post it here, and recommend to every 2+2er to boycott his tables. That's a disaster.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

in europe they always looked at me funny if i tipped in bars and restaurants.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

At the risk of being banned for violating the sticky, another reply by me.

Tipping in Holland, and I assume similar places, is standard in restaurants, but the percentage tends to be lower than in the US, 10 to 15%. But, unless you're in a really nice place, it's REALLY optional, not like they add it to your bill almost automatically. And they don't bitch at you if you tip small. You do, however, have to tip the bouncers in a club as you leave.

In France, I guess especially in 'classy' France, they expect more. Whatever, custom is custom. Everybody and his brother seems to deserve a tip, and the smallest [censored] chip they have is 2 euros. Whatever. I guess the comment wasn't that far out of line for their standards, because when I asked the waiter for a coke and how much it would cost, he told me 'nothing sir, just the tip'.

OTOH, the place is located in not exactly the cheapest location in Paris, walking distance from the Arc de Triomphe, nicely decorated, and they do have free breakfast if you stick around.

Still, flat out requiring a tip seems like a dick move to me. If that's really the standard (have been there only a couple of times), [censored] em. Bitches.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

"you wanna tip? take [censored] shower"

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

For those newer players that don't know, it's a minimum wage job without the tips... hook a brotha up. My poker school and gaming license set me back $800, and I'll only be at it 2-3 days a week.

I won't ask you for it, and I won't muck your cards if you don't, just keep in mind most dealers only get part time hours and work 90 mins on, 30 mins off on top of that. On a side note, yes, some dealers do get a little sloppy with your cards if you tend to be a stiff.

That said, as a player, I think soliciting tips is very tacky. If they do it in France as a normal custom, then I declare the entire nation of France to be tacky.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

different countries have different customs everyone.

I think it's incorrect to impose your American tipping standards on a country you know nothing about.

I have no idea if this is considered borderline okay in France or not.
I know that in the U.S. it's completely inappropriate for the service to EVER mention tipping. They have to pretend like it doesn't exist because that is the custom.

But it's like ignoring the giant elephant in the room because everyone knows that you are pretty much obligated to tip for certain services.

Personally, I think the American custom of 'ignoring the giant elephant' is a bit silly too.

I would be taken aback by the dealer in Paris who did this to me. But I would know that the REASON I was taken aback is because I am just so used to the american way of doing it.


Again, I don't know whether it's less rude in France if you stop pretending that you don't see the giant elephant. But I'm willing to reserve judgement about another culture that I know very little about.
And I certainly wouldn't call them 'tacky' just because they have a few customs that are a bit different.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

A lot of people in the US aren't at all shy about the subject of tipping. Regarding the 'tacky' comment, okay, I do not in fact declare 'all of France' to be tacky. But that kind of behavior is begging, whether it's customary or just this particular dealer.

I have not been to Paris in a very long time, and then was not nearly old enough to gamble. I do recall that tips were called something else and generally included in the bills, though you could leave a little extra. (I also recall that the people weren't particularly friendly.)

But I'm definately from the old school, you tip for good-great service. If you're doing a good job and a person won't tip, you don't ask for it. It's not about the elephant in the room, it's about personal dignity. I'd rather the guy keep his four bucks than have to ask him "not to forget" me.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

WOW!!! AND THEY DO !!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
There's plenty of room for dealers to screw you, even within the rules

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It could be European in nature to ask like that, but I'm not sure. When I played in Vienna at a simple little 3/6 table, I had a dealer flat out tell me I wasn't tipping her and neither was the player to my left. I am also pro-dealer, but was taken aback just a little at her assumption that she deserved to be tipped.

[/ QUOTE ]

In Vienna, the Floor actually spoke to a friend of mine (honest,not me) about tipping the dealer. He explained that it is part of the dealer's pay, and if he doesn't do his share, then the system falls apart.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's incorrect to impose your American tipping standards on a country you know nothing about.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's incorrect to impose ANY American standards on a country you know nothing about. However, if i am spending my money in that country i will do it the way that i like. I tip on split pots and on "noflop" pots but this dealer gets nothing from me the rest of the night.

Re: \"Don\'t forget the dealer\" - WTF?
 

[ QUOTE ]
At the risk of being banned for violating the sticky, another reply by me.

Tipping in Holland, and I assume similar places, is standard in restaurants, but the percentage tends to be lower than in the US, 10 to 15%. But, unless you're in a really nice place, it's REALLY optional, not like they add it to your bill almost automatically. And they don't bitch at you if you tip small. You do, however, have to tip the bouncers in a club as you leave.

In France, I guess especially in 'classy' France, they expect more. Whatever, custom is custom. Everybody and his brother seems to deserve a tip, and the smallest [censored] chip they have is 2 euros. Whatever. I guess the comment wasn't that far out of line for their standards, because when I asked the waiter for a coke and how much it would cost, he told me 'nothing sir, just the tip'.

OTOH, the place is located in not exactly the cheapest location in Paris, walking distance from the Arc de Triomphe, nicely decorated, and they do have free breakfast if you stick around.

Still, flat out requiring a tip seems like a dick move to me. If that's really the standard (have been there only a couple of times), [censored] em. Bitches.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please forgive the (possibly stupid) question, but why do you do it as you leave?