I can’t stop playing poker
 

I’ve been playing poker (almost entirely on the internet) for just over a year. I spend pretty much all my free time playing. I’m playing so much now that it’s beginning to impinge on my time with my fiancée and is affecting my college work.

I have kept track of my deposits etc… and I am an overall winner, although not by a lot. Over time I’ve moved from $1 sit n go’s up to $5. I’ve played about 600 in total. Recently I’ve also been playing ring games at .10/.20.

I’ve been going through a lot of turbulence in my bankroll recently. Sometimes I think I want to move up to higher stakes (sick of getting drawn out) and other times I think I’d be better off to just quit. Though I love the game so much (if I’m not playing I’m reading poker books or watching poker shows) I don’t think I really want to (or could) quit anyway.

I think it would be great if I could limit my poker playing to like 2 hours midweek and 2 on the weekend, while still getting enough excitement for the “fix” etc…

I also find it hard to manage my emotions when I’m losing and start throwing money away. I love money too much to do this! I think playing less would improve my game too becuase then I have time to cool off and compose myself.

My reason for posting is to get advice from anyone who can suggest a good time management system for poker playing or resources on will power/motivation that they have found useful? Anything of that kind. Anyone else had similar problems and how did you deal with it?

Thanks,

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Forgive the bluntness, but you probably shouldn't be gambling at all.

Playing microstakes poker should be a small/recreational thing. If its screwing up a relationship, it is NOT worth it.

Maybe try setting a specific 'personal' time which can be used for playing cards. Saturday mornings or whatnot. I'm not sure from your post if this will work. I think a couple weeks totally away from the game at a minimum would be better.

And now the constructive part:
Don't move up in stakes unless you want to go broke. All that will change is that the better players will be better and the donks will still be the same. You won't be able to move up anywhere near far enough to get away from that class of player.

As for emotional issues, you can't be concerned with winning and losing. Your goal at poker is not to make money, it is to make good decisions that are long-run profitable. Make that your goal while playing, and let the money take care of itself...if you really are a good/winning player, it will come.

Mental discipline is a huge part of this game. It is very simple to teach someone a near-optimal strategy for this game. It is much harder to deal with the swings involved in the game.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

What I think you should do: Write you poker site and tell them to lock your account for a period of 2-weeks (minimum). During this 2-week period, do some other [censored] and get your life back on an even keel. After then 2-week period you can start playing again and you likely won't be in your currently obsessed state.

Lucky

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Forgive the bluntness, but you probably shouldn't be gambling at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Mental discipline is a huge part of this game. It is very simple to teach someone a near-optimal strategy for this game. It is much harder to deal with the swings involved in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, & QFT

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Obviously you need to get your fiancee to play poker on teh interwebs. Then you guys will be spending more quality time together.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

You have a couple of options:

1. Quit playing poker online (ask the poker rooms for a voluntary lock-out of your account).

2. Quit school and leave your fiancee so you can play more break-even poker.

Seriously, if your are just playing recreational poker and it is negatively affecting your life, you have a gambling addiction. Do something to nip it in the bud.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

I used to play all the time during my first year at College. I have gone through those swings, playing at higher limits than what I was rolled for, and just being very emotional about it all. When Pokershare went down the first time, all the money in my bankroll was sent to me by check. Coincidentally, I needed to buy books for the next semester and was running low on cash. I used the poker money, had enough money to live on, and didn't redeposit for a year and a half. I just started playing again with money that I used from selling a WoW account (thats another fun obsession that had to stop when I had no extra money.) What I've found is that if you stop whatever addiction it is for an extended period of time (2 months or more), its very tough to get started again and you can be more mature about it, controlling when and how you play. Pay attention to real life, manage your priorities, and everything works better. Take 2 months off, especially since finals have to be coming up for you, and maybe even withdraw some of the money for your finacee and christmas. You can learn to respect it as a hobby, and not an obsession.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

http://www.toonartinc.com/Merchant2/...26202-S_lg.jpg

Nip it in the Bud!

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

I wouldn't say that playing poker is "screwing up" my relationship or my course. I just said that I think I've been playing too frequently.

I imagine there are plenty of people on this forum who play poker more than I do - i mean we love the game, that's why we're here right? - so why do some of you think I should quit playing entirely?


Thanks for the replies.

I think taking time out is a good idea.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

If you cant stop playing then you may have to admit you are an addict. There is nothing wrong with wanting to play all the time but when it is affecting your relationship then its time to step back and see if you have a problem.

As mentioned above step back for 2 weeks. Romance your lady, dinner flowers etc, spend some time with friends. anything but sitting playing on virtual felt.

If you cant honestly do this then you may have a problem and may need to see someone about it. This can become so destructive and you will only come to realise this when people around you become so unhappy and do drastic things like leave you.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play poker. I play most evenings as I cannot sit and watch a tv show without becoming bored. But i will take time out to spend time with the g/f or play on a laptop in the same room. Haha i also donate 10% of any winnings to the g/f so she has a vested interest in my playing. Shes never earned so much cash from watching her favourite shows.

In all seriousness you need to take control of your playing. youve made the right step in identify a problem. next step is action. Dont put yourself in situations where you will be bored while away from poker, do something constructive. Hit the gym, learn a new skill, read a book, cinema etc. break the cycle and you will come back a stronger poker player for sure.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

I went through a similar phase, although I was playing high limits and losing quite a lot of money. To limit this, I stopped playing online for about a year and only played live games with friends about once or twice a week, while really focusing on the aspects of the game that are important (ie: making good decisions, playing in favorable games).

By eliminating the online portion of my poker play, I was able to see each time that i played as entertaining and a time to not only improve my game, but spend time with friends, rather than in front of the computer.

After this, I went back to online poker and only played a few SNG's a week, or some small stakes cash games for fun against friends online. I realized that my new perspective of the game yielded some good returns. I could make money long-run by playing the stakes that suited my abilities.

I would suggest limiting either hours played or money wagered (because it sounds like you dont want to quit entirely). Another option would be to only play live games, where you can more easily see tangible wins and losses.

You can also get some friends to deposit online and have them sort of monitor your play, or only play when they are online. This may help.

Good Luck and if you get on tilt, just close the window and take a breather!

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say that playing poker is "screwing up" my relationship or my course. I just said that I think I've been playing too frequently.

I imagine there are plenty of people on this forum who play poker more than I do - i mean we love the game, that's why we're here right? - so why do some of you think I should quit playing entirely?


Thanks for the replies.

I think taking time out is a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do some people think you should stop playing? Well, look at what you called this thread. Look at how you said it is interfering (sorry, cannot spell the word you used originally so have to substitute one I can spell) with your studies and your love life.

I know what you mean about playing a lot because I went through the same thing. I disovered how much I liked poker during my first trip to Vegas about three years ago and when I got back home, I found out about free bar poker. I started playing when I could and that turned into seven days a week. My poker lifestyle crept into work (where I would talk poker with anyone who would listen) and my relationship. She was not happy that I was gone from home so much. Work was not too happy either as not everyone appreciated hearing my stories and I have a loud voice.

I played so much poker that for two years running, I was the league's top point earner for my state.

I don't play as much in bars for a number of reasons. One reason is that, in a manner of speaking, I had been to the top of the mountain twice and it was time for someone else to shoot for where I was and time for me to go on to other things. Those other things being online poker and a return to casino poker. But I don't play seven days a week online.

Admittedly, another reason I don't play as much in bars is that the league contracted in this area and there are not as many places to play and not as many sessions as in the past. But even if there were, my feelings of been there/done that would kick in.

I got lucky in my relationship because I got her interested in poker and nine times out of ten if I am sitting in a bar playing poker, she is right there playing at another table.

As to work, I realized they had a point and am much more circumspect as to who I talk to about poker.

I did not read these books before making my decision to cut back, but for the mental aspects of the game, might I recommend Your Worst Poker Enemy by Alan Schoonmaker. Besides the mental aspects, one thing I really liked was the recommended reading list at the back of the book. It breaks the list into the stages of a poker player and gives guidance as to a reading order within each section.

Another book I would recommend is The Poker Mindset by Ian Taylor and Matthew Hilger. Besides the mental aspects, it delves into more of the monetary aspects, too.

As to how I suggest you quit, let me tell you a little story first. I used to chew my fingernails when I was growing up. It got so bad that my mother bought a product that tasted really wretched whenever I tried chewing my fingernails. Did that make me stop? No, I got used to the taste and went on chewing. My mother tried several other products and techniques, but nothing worked.

Do I chew my nails to this day? No, I finally stopped. How? I decided to. In other words, I put my mind to the fact that I was going to stop and I did it.

What's the point? The point is that you can read all the books you want, you can get all the advice you want, but until you want to stop; until you make the decision to stop, you will continue with the same behavior. Short of being arrested for some crime and incarcerated resulting in an involunatary exile from the necessary components of your addiction, only you can make you stop. And it sounds like it is an addicition. It may not be as bad as alchohol or drugs, but it is an addiction nonetheless.

You may not want to admit it, but it does sound like you have a problem. I do not agree that you should get the sites to lock your accounts because that amounts to an involuntary exile and if you exile yourself, it needs to be voluntary. That is you need to be able to play if you so choose even though you plan on not playing for awhile. I would leave the accounts unlocked and simply resolve to not play or at least not play as much.

If you find that you cannot make yourself stay away from the sites, then have them lock your accounts, but give yourself a chance to do it voluntarily first.

I hope this guidance helps and sorry that I started rambling. I have a tendency to do that when I am tired.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point? The point is that you can read all the books you want, you can get all the advice you want, but until you want to stop; until you make the decision to stop, you will continue with the same behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good words there Doc. Agreed with the above 100%

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]


My reason for posting is to get advice from anyone who can suggest a good time management system for poker playing or resources on will power/motivation that they have found useful? Anything of that kind. Anyone else had similar problems and how did you deal with it?

Thanks,


[/ QUOTE ]

I think my motivation came when i started tracking my winnings/losses. By using a tool like pokertracker I started really keeping an eye on my decisions as it would affect my end of week/month winrate. I started looking into the depths of my play and looking for the leaks.
By fixing the leaks & increasing your winrate the bankroll started building. The motivation is to move up the levels. To improve my game to eventually play the bigger stakes. That is still my motivation. I also play within a strict bankroll. This prevents me going bust and losing my motivation.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Hi, dblhtink~~

I'm a 53 year old female with a passion for poker also. I understand how "addicting" it can be. But I am using that term loosely and casually in much the same manner as people might say they are so "depressed" when in actuality, they are simply feeling bluesed-out and down.

However, this does not discount the fact that there are very REAL clinical depressions and gambling addictions.

So let's set aside the tangledness for a moment of the debate on whether poker is actually "gambling" per se. Doesn't matter. It CAN be a very real form of addiction, playing poker. While I might sit at the poker tables with some other regulars and make self-deprecating remarks about "us lowlife degenerate poker addicts," and we chuckle about it, I have come to realize that there truly ARE some unfortunate people who are very much caught up in the throes of a poker addiction. While I am not sadistically "targeting" any specific individuals, I do make money from them, as I do from the hotshots who sit down and in their self-introductions, brag how they are so good.

It's a weird thing, this "addiction" process. How do you determine if something that you are so tuned into and just ENJOY so much, is it simply a wonderful, exciting PASSION or is it something nagging at you that might be the beginning indications of a PROBLEM?

It may be that you're flip-flopping in your mind during this period of time, thinking sometimes that maybe you need to chill out (as you've expressed in your initial post here) and at other times, thinking that it's not so bad, after all.

And you know, it is possible that both are true. I don't know you, I don't know your personality style and individual characteristics. Perhaps you are the type of person who does throw himself head-over-heels into various projects and interests and this current poker fascination is quite typical of your approach to other activities in the past.

There are so many subtleties to a poker addiction, however. One of which is the online poker thing which is what it seems has so captivated you. So there's the draw of the poker thing itself but there's the additional "stickiness" for lack of a better term of the actual computer gaming experience which in and of itself can be "addicting" to a degree. I mean, people got hooked on DR. MARIO games, playing for hours and hours and hours, seemingly unable to stop. If you research the literature, you will find many case studies on similar things.

So there's something about the "draw" and "lure" of the online poker experience. Then you really do just dig poker. Well, then there's the money thing also. While you're not at the level of making your college tuition, nevertheless, you ARE winning some bucks. So there's also the enticement of the greed factor and the thought of perhaps getting really GOOD at this game.

You say you've been playing for about a year during all your free time and that you keep detailed records. How many hours have you played in a year? How does this fit into your life? Do you lose sleep or wake up in the middle of the night and play? Turn down opportunities to do other things that you would otherwise normally have done but didn't want to be away from online poker in order to do it?

You can probably Google search to get a list of the "warning signs" of gambling addiction.

Some of the htings you say which sound like there might be trouble include the statement that it has been affecting your college work and time with your fiancee. The statement that you "love money too much" might just be an expression but it also sets off a warning flag. The thing you speak about, the "excitement of the fix" is a well known phenonomen (arrrggh, can't spell it) of addiction. Not only in substance abuse/chemical addiction but in what are known as "process" addictions, of which gambling, or poker playing can certainly be. Shoplifting or even simply shopping, is also another example where the "high" of the "fix" comes into play. The fact that you state you don't think you COULD quit is also troubling.

Here's my "advice." See if there are any Gamblers Anonymous meetings in your area. During the one month period of time during which you VOLUNTARILY attempt to cold turkey off poker playing, go to some of these meetings-- a LOT of these meetings. Not necessarily to introduce yourself as an addict. But to listen to other people's stories.

Sure, there's likely to be some old farts sitting around, people who lost jobs, homes, families, etc. and all sorts of people to whom you cannot relate. But don't go there looking for the differences. Go with an open mind. Listen and look for the similarities. See if anything anyone says strikes a chord and resonates with you.

If there's no GA meetings in your area, call an 800 number and talk to folks there. Or try some other 12 step support group-- they all have meetings some of which are closed and some of which are open. "Closed" meetings mean you have ot be one to go there-- for example, only alcoholics go to AA closed meetings. But anyone can attend an AA open meeting and that's where nurses, or therapists or neighbors or journalists or whomever is curious can attend. And there are STEP meetings where people work on practicing a program and there are SPEAKER meetings. You want to listen to other people's stories by going to SPEAKER meetings. DOn't laugh but perhaps some SEX ADDICTS ANONYMOUS meetings might be helpful. These are people with PROCESS addictions also and you'd be surprised how often you could listen to someone talk who perhaps is obsessed with porn and jerking off dozens of times a day and substitute playing poker in your mind and find that the types of difficulties in the addictions are very similar.

You don't have to decide if you're a poker playing addict or how well that label fits or doesn't fit. You just want to find out whether you might have a problem. If you are UNABLE to VOLUNTARILY refrain from ANY poker playing for an entire month cold turkey then it's not definite but very highly likely that there's something there in the "addiction" arena.

If you do manage to "keep clean" so to speak for a month that doesn't mean you're "home free" as many people can "white knuckle" their way through a withdrawal and sustain a brief absence from their primary drug of choice.

See what happens when you go back, after having set clear guidelines for yourself on limits in hours per day/days per week as well as monetary boundaries.

This is a very long post. Most of the posts I will ever make in any of these forums probably will be. So I don't need to hear all the TL-DR comments which I will likely get from others.

Just trying to offer you some feedback on how things seem to me. If there's anything in here which helps, that's great. If not, well then, just take what you can use and leave the rest alone.

Best wishes to you and please post back in a couple of weeks and let us know how it's going for you and what you've decided.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

I haven't read all of the responses but you are definitly addicted. When poker starts affecting your outside life, it starts to be a problem. If you don't think you are addicted, try to stop playing for 30 days. If you can do that then I would say you are fine.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, dblhtink~~

I'm a 53 year old female with a passion for poker also. I understand how "addicting" it can be. But I am using that term loosely and casually in much the same manner as people might say they are so "depressed" when in actuality, they are simply feeling bluesed-out and down.

However, this does not discount the fact that there are very REAL clinical depressions and gambling addictions.

So let's set aside the tangledness for a moment of the debate on whether poker is actually "gambling" per se. Doesn't matter. It CAN be a very real form of addiction, playing poker. While I might sit at the poker tables with some other regulars and make self-deprecating remarks about "us lowlife degenerate poker addicts," and we chuckle about it, I have come to realize that there truly ARE some unfortunate people who are very much caught up in the throes of a poker addiction. While I am not sadistically "targeting" any specific individuals, I do make money from them, as I do from the hotshots who sit down and in their self-introductions, brag how they are so good.

It's a weird thing, this "addiction" process. How do you determine if something that you are so tuned into and just ENJOY so much, is it simply a wonderful, exciting PASSION or is it something nagging at you that might be the beginning indications of a PROBLEM?

It may be that you're flip-flopping in your mind during this period of time, thinking sometimes that maybe you need to chill out (as you've expressed in your initial post here) and at other times, thinking that it's not so bad, after all.

And you know, it is possible that both are true. I don't know you, I don't know your personality style and individual characteristics. Perhaps you are the type of person who does throw himself head-over-heels into various projects and interests and this current poker fascination is quite typical of your approach to other activities in the past.

There are so many subtleties to a poker addiction, however. One of which is the online poker thing which is what it seems has so captivated you. So there's the draw of the poker thing itself but there's the additional "stickiness" for lack of a better term of the actual computer gaming experience which in and of itself can be "addicting" to a degree. I mean, people got hooked on DR. MARIO games, playing for hours and hours and hours, seemingly unable to stop. If you research the literature, you will find many case studies on similar things.

So there's something about the "draw" and "lure" of the online poker experience. Then you really do just dig poker. Well, then there's the money thing also. While you're not at the level of making your college tuition, nevertheless, you ARE winning some bucks. So there's also the enticement of the greed factor and the thought of perhaps getting really GOOD at this game.

You say you've been playing for about a year during all your free time and that you keep detailed records. How many hours have you played in a year? How does this fit into your life? Do you lose sleep or wake up in the middle of the night and play? Turn down opportunities to do other things that you would otherwise normally have done but didn't want to be away from online poker in order to do it?

You can probably Google search to get a list of the "warning signs" of gambling addiction.

Some of the htings you say which sound like there might be trouble include the statement that it has been affecting your college work and time with your fiancee. The statement that you "love money too much" might just be an expression but it also sets off a warning flag. The thing you speak about, the "excitement of the fix" is a well known phenonomen (arrrggh, can't spell it) of addiction. Not only in substance abuse/chemical addiction but in what are known as "process" addictions, of which gambling, or poker playing can certainly be. Shoplifting or even simply shopping, is also another example where the "high" of the "fix" comes into play. The fact that you state you don't think you COULD quit is also troubling.

Here's my "advice." See if there are any Gamblers Anonymous meetings in your area. During the one month period of time during which you VOLUNTARILY attempt to cold turkey off poker playing, go to some of these meetings-- a LOT of these meetings. Not necessarily to introduce yourself as an addict. But to listen to other people's stories.

Sure, there's likely to be some old farts sitting around, people who lost jobs, homes, families, etc. and all sorts of people to whom you cannot relate. But don't go there looking for the differences. Go with an open mind. Listen and look for the similarities. See if anything anyone says strikes a chord and resonates with you.

If there's no GA meetings in your area, call an 800 number and talk to folks there. Or try some other 12 step support group-- they all have meetings some of which are closed and some of which are open. "Closed" meetings mean you have ot be one to go there-- for example, only alcoholics go to AA closed meetings. But anyone can attend an AA open meeting and that's where nurses, or therapists or neighbors or journalists or whomever is curious can attend. And there are STEP meetings where people work on practicing a program and there are SPEAKER meetings. You want to listen to other people's stories by going to SPEAKER meetings. DOn't laugh but perhaps some SEX ADDICTS ANONYMOUS meetings might be helpful. These are people with PROCESS addictions also and you'd be surprised how often you could listen to someone talk who perhaps is obsessed with porn and jerking off dozens of times a day and substitute playing poker in your mind and find that the types of difficulties in the addictions are very similar.

You don't have to decide if you're a poker playing addict or how well that label fits or doesn't fit. You just want to find out whether you might have a problem. If you are UNABLE to VOLUNTARILY refrain from ANY poker playing for an entire month cold turkey then it's not definite but very highly likely that there's something there in the "addiction" arena.

If you do manage to "keep clean" so to speak for a month that doesn't mean you're "home free" as many people can "white knuckle" their way through a withdrawal and sustain a brief absence from their primary drug of choice.

See what happens when you go back, after having set clear guidelines for yourself on limits in hours per day/days per week as well as monetary boundaries.

This is a very long post. Most of the posts I will ever make in any of these forums probably will be. So I don't need to hear all the TL-DR comments which I will likely get from others.

Just trying to offer you some feedback on how things seem to me. If there's anything in here which helps, that's great. If not, well then, just take what you can use and leave the rest alone.

Best wishes to you and please post back in a couple of weeks and let us know how it's going for you and what you've decided.

[/ QUOTE ]


great post! i thinks a lot of people could use some sage advise like this.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I’m playing so much now that it’s beginning to impinge on my time with my fiancée and is affecting my college work.

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple years ago, someone wrote about a gambling addiction. It's extremely long. No, it's several times longer than you visualized when I said, "extremely long." If you're interested, it's located here .

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I’ve been playing poker (almost entirely on the internet) for just over a year. I spend pretty much all my free time playing. I’m playing so much now that it’s beginning to impinge on my time with my fiancée and is affecting my college work.

[/ QUOTE ]

This means it's time to quit. Before you screw up your relationship with your fiancee. Before you screw up your education. Get your life back in balance and your priorities back in line. These things: your fiancee and your education, are so much more important than playing poker that they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. And if any of these things should be sacrificed for the others, then it's the poker that should be dropped.

Good luck to you

--klez

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
A couple years ago, someone wrote about a gambling addiction. It's extremely long. No, it's several times longer than you visualized when I said, "extremely long." If you're interested, it's located here .

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, Mike, thanks for the link. I just spent a LONG time reading the entire thread and posted a reply at the end (for which I shall likely get some flames for having caused it to get bumped up to a seemingly "new" status again).

Wish the people had chosen to LISTEN to the man's story rather than to spin things off as they did as I suspect he had a lot more to say. Neverthless, it (the thread itself) is intriguingly indicative of the mess and havoc which addictions foster not only in the lives of those whom are directly afflicted but to countless other bystanders who sometimes get in the way and are hit by the fallout.

In that, too, there is a story which is told, a lesson to be learned, to those who have ears willing to listen and eyes willing to see.

Thanks for having provided the link as upsetting as the experience of reading the whole thread was for me, I neverthless appreciated it.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

How many of the posts on the eighteen pages were actually by the OP? Those are the only ones that I am interested in reading. I read about three of the OP's post before bailing.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Not sure exactly where it was he left off in terms of numbers of posts that continued on with his story. Somewhere along about page 7 would be my best guess. He did make some replies but most of those were responses to the attacks and abuse he was getting from others. Then people started attacking him for his responses and then he was silent but the thread went on and on and on (like this sentence) but with nasty remarks and people all puffed up full of themselves with self-congratulatory remarks for having been able "to spot the BS" and for being so self-admittedly clever at saying (OVER AND OVER again) "We're still WAITING FOR GODOT..."

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see that a few reply posts here [NVG] have indeed been deleted and it's a scary thought trying to imagine what they might have said.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding! I've been reading 2+2 for years, but have never before been in NVG. I'll probably never be there again. In addition to your introduction, I've read your post to the Godot thread. I look forward to seeing more from you.

Welcome to 2+2. What shall I call you? Pepit? Ann?

One of the best places to start on 2+2 is with the sticky faqs that are at the top of each group. Another good place is the Best of Two Plus Two thread. I've barely begun to read it.

[ QUOTE ]
nasty remarks and people all puffed up full of themselves with self-congratulatory remarks

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. What a great summary.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Thanks, Mike. Pepita 'n' Nikita were the names of two cats I lived with while I was in California. I'll answer to anything, though! LOL. Actually, at the risk of sounding very morbid, I do not expect to be around more than handful of days more at most so it doesn't really much matter. On the other hand, there is always the chance of some sort of miracle and if I turn out to be still breathing, I will post back in a less despairing tone.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, at the risk of sounding very morbid, I do not expect to be around more than handful of days more at most so it doesn't really much matter. On the other hand, there is always the chance of some sort of miracle and if I turn out to be still breathing, I will post back in a less despairing tone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of us will hope and pray for the miracle.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, at the risk of sounding very morbid, I do not expect to be around more than handful of days more at most so it doesn't really much matter. On the other hand, there is always the chance of some sort of miracle and if I turn out to be still breathing, I will post back in a less despairing tone.

[/ QUOTE ]

yikes, what is going on?

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

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Actually, at the risk of sounding very morbid, I do not expect to be around more than handful of days more at most so it doesn't really much matter. On the other hand, there is always the chance of some sort of miracle and if I turn out to be still breathing, I will post back in a less despairing tone.

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yikes, what is going on?

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He lost his life savings and his fiancée is pissed?

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

By he you must mean she and by fiancee you mean cat. And as for what is going on, I hope it isn't too dire. Elaborate?

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

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Playing microstakes poker should be a small/recreational thing. If its screwing up a relationship, it is NOT worth it.


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I have a quibble with this part of your otherwise good post.

I am a very serious beginning poker player, and my small-stakes play is neither small (in terms of time) or recreational.

My goal is to make poker into a decent part-time job. I am a musician, so I approached it like I would learning a new instrument. To be good, I have to learn the fundamentals, just as in playing an instrument, you have to learn tone production, scales, alternate fingerings and when to use them, etc.

I approached poker exactly the same way. I used play money to get used to how it works online. I am always using flash cards to memorize something new: odds/outs/percentages, different starting hand systems for different situations, different randomization techniques/systems, what to bet to give the right (wrong?) odds to a drawing opponent, etc., etc.).

One of these days, I'm going to slog through The Mathematics of Poker, and I might even take a game theory class to help myself in that area.

I talked this over with my wife, I had a plan and a very conservative bankroll strategy.

I did play money for several months, was grinding $1 SNG for a few more months, and I recently moved up to $5 SNG. I've been playing for real money for about 6 months.

This is not recreational. Right now I work about 30 hours a week at my regular job, and another 30 playing poker. I like it, but this is my work, just like my "regular" job, and by the time I've been playing real money for a year I should be playing $10 SNG and making as much as at my real job.

If someone really wants to be good at poker, he can never start with the idea that it's recreational until you play for the big money, or "it's only play money" or even "lol micro donkaments" (that last drives me crazy).

The problems with addiction are real. I know, I worked with drug and alcohol additcs for twelve years. However, commitment, even at micro levels, even if it's a big time commitment, is not a bad thing.

"I don't know anyone that got rich working 40 hours a week."--Sean Hannity

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

do what you enjoy. if that's poker, then get better at it and prosper.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Poker Clif~~

Thank you for your post! While I have lacked the discipline of total attention to details that you describe, I nevertheless had a similar approach to learning/playing poker. Although my case was different, I learned in fake money games online and then played my first real money games in $3-6 limit games where I stayed for the next 2,000 hours.

I did grind out LONG hours at the tables. It was tough to beat the game because there was a $3 button drop plus a $1 jackpot drop taken out of every hand. I was restricted due to lack of transportation to a need to take the bus so that meant at times that I would, of necessity (dire financial circumstances which precluded ability to take taxis), pull an all-nighter after already having played a session, meaning I had missed the last bus at 10 p.m. so I couldn't leave until after 6 a.m. on weekdays or 9 a.m. on weekends.

So while I had sat down for the first time a complete poker retardo (and oh my, how I could regale you with stories of the things I did and thought! LOL!), I nevertheless always believed that I could learn this game and would beat it to the extent of regularly supplementing my meager disability income.

I am academically inclined, open to learning without that ego involvement thing that seems so glaring in so many newbie players (being 50, female and fat might helo in that regard)--LOL.

I'm just sort of hitting some points to say that I was serious about the game. I very much LIKED and ENJOYED the game and it was a lot of FUN also-- the learning process itself was fun. But it was also WORK and I approached it that way, as a business, keeping very detailed records, including how much I had to spend for bus fare, what I tipped the dealers-- these were "expenses" that I would not have normally have had were I NOT playing poker and I needed to account for them. I deducted those amounts from my bottom line poker profit.

So when I would hear folks mocking the "no fold 'em hold 'em" $3-6 limit games (which were the lowest games the casino spread) and comment upon the players in them as being people who didn't care about the money because it was such small amounts, it hurt me. I cared very MUCH about the money and the money MATTERED to me and made a difference in my life. I found out that even with the variance fluctuations that I consistently made a certain hourly rate average that I could almost count on and so that is why I began logging in 40-60 hours a week then. Heck, I had always worked overtime when I was in management so extra hours wasn't a foreign concept. I just knew that the more hours I played poker, the more income I would produce and my records provided evidence of this.

Now, I've highjacked this thread away from the OP long enough so time to get it back on track! LOL.

Just wanted to concur with what you had been saying in your excellent post. Not all of us who play at low limits are in the same category. There is nothing wrong with those who are primarily social players, enjoying the game, having fun, blowing money. Indeed, I make money sitting at their tables and have fun with them while I do so!

Those who are more serious-minded and who play long hours are not necessarily addicts, either.

I guess everyone has a story to tell and it's interesting "meeting" folks here on 2+2 and hearing some of theirs.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

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Poker Clif~~

Thank you for your post! While I have lacked the discipline of total attention to details that you describe, I nevertheless had a similar approach to learning/playing poker. Although my case was different, I learned in fake money games online and then played my first real money games in $3-6 limit games where I stayed for the next 2,000 hours.

I did grind out LONG hours at the tables. It was tough to beat the game because there was a $3 button drop plus a $1 jackpot drop taken out of every hand. I was restricted due to lack of transportation to a need to take the bus so that meant at times that I would, of necessity (dire financial circumstances which precluded ability to take taxis), pull an all-nighter after already having played a session, meaning I had missed the last bus at 10 p.m. so I couldn't leave until after 6 a.m. on weekdays or 9 a.m. on weekends.

So while I had sat down for the first time a complete poker retardo (and oh my, how I could regale you with stories of the things I did and thought! LOL!), I nevertheless always believed that I could learn this game and would beat it to the extent of regularly supplementing my meager disability income.

I am academically inclined, open to learning without that ego involvement thing that seems so glaring in so many newbie players (being 50, female and fat might helo in that regard)--LOL.

I'm just sort of hitting some points to say that I was serious about the game. I very much LIKED and ENJOYED the game and it was a lot of FUN also-- the learning process itself was fun. But it was also WORK and I approached it that way, as a business, keeping very detailed records, including how much I had to spend for bus fare, what I tipped the dealers-- these were "expenses" that I would not have normally have had were I NOT playing poker and I needed to account for them. I deducted those amounts from my bottom line poker profit.

So when I would hear folks mocking the "no fold 'em hold 'em" $3-6 limit games (which were the lowest games the casino spread) and comment upon the players in them as being people who didn't care about the money because it was such small amounts, it hurt me. I cared very MUCH about the money and the money MATTERED to me and made a difference in my life. I found out that even with the variance fluctuations that I consistently made a certain hourly rate average that I could almost count on and so that is why I began logging in 40-60 hours a week then. Heck, I had always worked overtime when I was in management so extra hours wasn't a foreign concept. I just knew that the more hours I played poker, the more income I would produce and my records provided evidence of this.

Now, I've highjacked this thread away from the OP long enough so time to get it back on track! LOL.

Just wanted to concur with what you had been saying in your excellent post. Not all of us who play at low limits are in the same category. There is nothing wrong with those who are primarily social players, enjoying the game, having fun, blowing money. Indeed, I make money sitting at their tables and have fun with them while I do so!

Those who are more serious-minded and who play long hours are not necessarily addicts, either.

I guess everyone has a story to tell and it's interesting "meeting" folks here on 2+2 and hearing some of theirs.

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Thank you for your kind comments. Our situations are more alike than you could even imagine.

I am 53. I have Attention Deficit Disorder that wasn't diagnosed until I was 40 years old. I was incredibly disorganized, had great difficulty staying on task, ane even wound up in jail more than once because I lost or forgot to pay minor traffic tickets, and I paid thousands of dollars in bail, fines, fees, court cost, etc. I'm still dealing with the reprecussions of ADD-personal, financial, and academic.

My life was out of control for a long time, but poker is something that I can control. Poker doesn't care about my past, I don't have to hope that poker will hire me, and poker doesn't care what grades are on my transcript.

So now I'm in the transition from "micro" to "low stakes", according to PokerStars, and I've been very serious all the way along. You higher-stakes or cash game players can "lol donkaments" all you want. I'll just take the donk money while you're doing whatever you do up on your high horses.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

Wow, I must say, I never expected to get so many responses; This thread certainly seems to have taken on a life of its own.

I get the impression that a lot of people have things to say about addiction and/or obsession with poker. I think it is really great that people have shared their stories, which will now be read by beginners on this forum, who potentially could fall into the same trap.

Particular thanks to:

Nybbles_64 and RyverRat for some good tips (although thanks to RyverRat my fiancée now wants 10% of my winnings).

Foolgizaki, Doc T River, pepitannikita for contribution of your own poker stories. Doc I've took a note on those books you suggested and I think your story portrayed a good message about will power (lol just wrote "will poker" ; that's when you know you have a problem). pepitannikita I appreciate the time you took to write all that, you've suggested so many ideas and made me take addiction more seriously.

Thanks MikeBandy for the link to godot's thread. I think there's some parallel between our stories (despite his story being way more serious!). Being a poor student living on baked beans and noodles for so long has made me really value my money. And I think the excitement that some people get from $5/10 games or whatever, I get from the microstakes - and with it comes the possibility of addiction and self destruction.

I think Poker Clif's posts made it clear that there are still other people too, who take the small games really seriously.

Anyway before this feels too much like an award speech. I have my first update:
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So far I have not played any poker since making the first post and have agreed with myself to not play until christmas and only if I have set strict times and amounts that I am confident I will stick to.

I have also registered with my universities' counselling service.

It's early days at the moment but I am feeling confident.

Thanks again,

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

You are in college, you should be on holiday break, you have a girlfriend so here is what the doctor orders.

Lots and lots of "unquiet" time with her.

Re: I can’t stop playing poker
 

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So far I have not played any poker since making the first post and have agreed with myself to not play until christmas

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Wow, that's great!

So many people here are in your corner, on the sidelines and wanting to see you achieve success! The counseling idea seems like a very good one also! And no matter what happens, even if you fail in this endeavor, do not become discouraged. Many good things are waiting to happen for you in your life! Have fun and stay in touch. Thanks for the update.