the ol\' call-4bet
 

hero is bb with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. couple limpers and i check.

* FLOP * is AT9r.

i lead.

guy who seems lp but who has made some weird c/rs calls. someone else calls.

french guy raises; i don't know what this raise means, but he is one of the few people at the table who has raised preflop.

i 3bet.

weird c/r guy 4bets! (5 is a cap.)

other guy folds.

french guy calls two more.


what is my plan from here? you can assume the turn is a brick.

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
hero is bb with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. couple limpers and i check.

* FLOP * is AT9r.

i lead.

guy who seems lp but who has made some weird c/rs calls. someone else calls.

french guy raises; i don't know what this raise means, but he is one of the few people at the table who has raised preflop.

i 3bet.

weird c/r guy 4bets! (5 is a cap.)

other guy folds.

french guy calls two more.


what is my plan from here? you can assume the turn is a brick.

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I want to put in more bets, I'd just call and check-call most turns, and probably check-call most rivers unless there's some unusual action. Weird action players are a pain in the butt to read, so I don't try very hard to do it. This could be QJ for a free card 4-bet, or it could be AK for the "I has a slowplays AK" tarp. He could also have a set.

My fear is that I don't want to feed money to a set of 9s heads up when I can probably check-call and get to showdown 3-handed with the Frenchman hanging around and get just as many bets in as heads up.

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
i lead.

guy who seems lp but who has made some weird c/rs calls. someone else calls.

french guy raises; i don't know what this raise means, but he is one of the few people at the table who has raised preflop.

i 3bet.

weird c/r guy 4bets!

[/ QUOTE ]
What exactly made his previous check/raises weird? If he's doing it with a draw or complete air I kind of like the idea of check/raising HIM on the turn if it were HU, but with Frenchy almost certainly having an OESD of some sort, I'd rather go five bets now and lead the turn if it's safe.

This is, of course, assuming Weirdo's c/r's don't mean strength. I played live and watched someone call two cold third to act on the flop then cap after it was three-bet behind him with a set of 9's. That was evidently so obvious that both the initial bettor and the flop raiser instantly folded. (The guy who three-bet hung around for a backdoor flush.)

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

sudo apt-get install calldown 2>~/beration.log

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

call down, but if a T or A hits, check raise...looks like you are up against set of 99's

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

Don't know what limit you're playing or the positions of the limpers, but I think anyone holding 99 would have probably raised PF.

I think you are probably still ahead. Lead a safe turn, and call down from there on.

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

aaron,

nice. i think the overlay from Le Grenouille is a compelling argument for not trying any further aggression.


darsh,

at this point in the session, i don't think i'd seen him showdown anything after his funky c/rs. i'll post a couple later.


buzz,

i said something on STDERR, so check your beration.log.


gaprazor,

if you're so sure he has 99, why not fold the turn (or even the flop)?

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

just for fun, the turn action:

so i tanked for a moment and tried to figure out what to do. i figured that sets made up a large part of his range here, but his line is so weird that i felt lame just c/c down, so i called the 4bet and donked the turn brick. weirdo raises again, frenchy calls, and i called down.

does anyone just fold to the turn raise? i mean, what do we beat?

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

I think the position of the limper is improtant here. If he was UTG then 99, TT, and AA could all be hands he would potentially limp in with. I think we can elminate AA though because loose passives don't limp reraise. I am inclined to just call down here because passive players don't usually 4bet without a set. You get a nice overlay from the French player as long as he doesn't hit his open ender.

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone just fold to the turn raise? i mean, what do we beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

We beat A9 and T9. Only the most aggressive of players would play those two hands so fast. I don't know if I could do it but folding to the turn raise is probably the best play.

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

a) The pot is so big after getting raised on turn that hero should call down.
b) We should fold to the raise because our hand is like never good after he call/caps and then raises turn.
-----------------------------

These are always tough situations. I have to say the turn donk is pretty bad. I tend to express opinions in these situations based on my version of reality (which is not normal). My opinion is that you should calldown and hate yourself. I mean OMG you have top2. He could have A9 or T9 (or QJ). So yeah I think we are going to see both vils have worse hands often enough. If villain is drawing with QJ, that cuts into our calldown odds though. One more bonus is you are paying 2 more bets to get a better read on his weird c/r aggroness. Also, you probably need a plan B if frenchy raises in order to avoid getting trapped.

Buzz

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

Well,

There are some reasonable two-pair hands you beat - A9, T9

Sets can be figured in there – TT and 99 most likely if out there

Then of course massively overplayed TPTK…..

Perhaps even QJ doing some value betting.

I’d say there’s enough hands out there you beat, or can draw out against that you want to see the turn aggressively and the river cheaply

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

all,

it's funny because i was actually devil's advocating again when i suggested folding the turn. i'm getting to showdown here ~always. interesting that some of you aren't!


sarge,

[ QUOTE ]
I’d say there’s enough hands out there you beat, or can draw out against that you want to see the turn aggressively and the river cheaply

[/ QUOTE ]

so does this mean that you like the turn donk? do you 5bet the flop and lead instead? something else?

Re: the ol\' call-4bet
 

[ QUOTE ]
all,

it's funny because i was actually devil's advocating again when i suggested folding the turn. i'm getting to showdown here ~always. interesting that some of you aren't!


[/ QUOTE ]

please report back with a count to this effect.