Two Plus Two Newer Archives

Two Plus Two Newer Archives (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/index.php)

- Medium Stakes (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58)

- - Theory: on AK (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=221844)

Lately there seems to be some confusion on this board about how to play AK. There are many handposts where hero (villain) seems to be asking trivial questions and making silly plays with this hand. It is well known that poker legend Doyle Brunson considers AK to be the best hand in no limit hold em - and in my mind and the minds of no limit holdem specialists everywhere, this is the undisputed truth.

To shed some light on this topic, let me first present a few examples about where AK has been befouled by someone.

Case 1: As seen in the september [censored] thread, tcorbin16 had AsKs in a hand vs cts. The flop was 66A and cts bet out just over 3/4 the pot. Tcorbin16 flatcalled the nuts. On the turned 5, cts checked and Tcorbing16 checked behind the nuts. On the river cts bet the pot and Tcorbin16 folded the nuts (not a misclick, suprisingly).

Case 2: In this hand, a very confused hero playing almost-nl decides it is prudent to muck the nuts face-up. Perhaps he did this for metagame,but in my opinion, this is nothing but stupidgame. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=2#Post7405856

Case 3: In this hand, the hapless hero fails to bet the turn with the AK top pair, top kicker. He then opts to flatcall river. This is a crime. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post7435940

Once again, the cries of AKaholics are heard everywhere when the best hand in hold em is so grossly misplayed. I propose a theorem to act as a corrective measure for misguided and lost poker players around the globe. This theorem is the AK is the nuts both preflop and postflop theorom.

Of course, you all know that a theorem is, and that my comrads is, "An idea accepted or proposed as a demonstrable truth often as a part of a general theory." (reference: webster).

Here is some evidence that I have gathered to support the aforementioned theorem. I suspect that you will find it quite compelling.

Case 1: In this hand, a loose and aggressive villain tries to put the moves on me with what I suspected was a low pocket pair (which it was infact). Little does he know, AK is the nuts preflop, and I refuse to fold the nuts. Villain has very little misclick-equity vs a seasoned mouse veteran such as myself.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($600)
MP ($2096.53)
Button ($959.09)
SB ($1015.22)
Hero ($662)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
1 fold, MP raises to $22, Button calls $22, 1 fold, Hero raises to $93, MP folds, Button raises to $176, Hero calls $563 (All-In), Button calls $486.

Flop: ($1349) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($1349) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($1349) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $1349

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ks As (one pair, aces).
Button has Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins $1334. Button wins $15. 

Case 2: The following hand is a demonstration of how sometimes it can be both profitable and fun to play deceptively and/or trickily with the nuts (I anticipated he would go allin, because I am that damn good). After the hand villain complained about a suckout. I then informed him that I was a favourite both preflop and postflop, and there isnt really anything else to it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($2937.33)
Button ($476)
SB ($3864.26)
BB ($1942.19)
UTG ($2842.09)
Hero ($1000)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $5.
1 fold, Hero raises to $40, 3 folds, BB calls $30.

Flop: ($85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $75, Hero raises to $150, BB calls $1827.19 (All-In), Hero calls $810 (All-In).

Turn: ($2947.19) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($2947.19) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $2947.19

Results in white below: 
BB has 9c 9h (three of a kind, nines).
Hero has Kh Ad (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins $2005. BB wins $942.19. 

Case 3: Here I decided to check the nuts for deception. Little did villain know, he was drawing dead like a zombie on every street.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($512.30)
SB ($488.97)
BB ($353.60)
Hero ($591)
MP ($238.47)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
Hero raises to $24, 1 fold, Button raises to $82, 2 folds, Hero raises to $225, Button calls $143.

Flop: ($459) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($459) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero calls $366 (All-In), Button calls $287.30 (All-In).

River: ($1112.30) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $1112.30

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Ac (one pair, aces).
Button has Qh Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $1112.30. 

CASE 4.... BONUS CASE: I probably shouldnt post this hand, since it gives away a lot of valuable information about the current poker metagame. I'm sure after this hand, it will become very clear how dominant AK really is.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($669.05)
SB ($666.95)
BB ($733.65)
UTG ($797.74)
MP ($494)
Hero ($671.10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, Hero raises to $22, 1 fold, SB (poster) raises to $62, 1 fold, Hero calls $43.

Flop: ($136) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero calls $606.10 (All-In), SB calls $601.95 (All-In).

Turn: ($1344.05) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($1344.05) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $1344.05

Results in white below: 
SB has Qc Ac (one pair, aces).
Hero has Ad Ks (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $1344.05.

Re: Theory: on AK

Wtf, DanBee writing all stratagy and shiat,naaaaa? Who's your ghostwriter? Clonie Gowen?

Re: Theory: on AK

Presently on mIRC, I am fielding a few questions about AK. Here is a noteworthy piece of that:

<Kis> very nice
<Kis> How many BB/100 are you making with AK DanBKilla?
<DanBKilla> all of them

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
Presently on mIRC, I am fielding a few questions about AK. Here is a noteworthy piece of that:

<Kis> very nice
<Kis> How many BB/100 are you making with AK DanBKilla?
<DanBKilla> all of them

[/ QUOTE ]

Wth, don't bite my lines [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

i'd actually really like to read something serious that you put this much time into.

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
i'd actually really like to read something serious that you put this much time into.

[/ QUOTE ]

10 min? AK is the nuts theorem.

PS - I'm actually pretty bad at poker lol. My opponents however are frequently worse [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]
somebody tell me wtf that means.

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]
somebody tell me wtf that means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Theory: on AK

too long;didn't read

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr

[/ QUOTE ]
shame on you.

Re: Theory: on AK

Case 1: Hero gets his money in as a 33.69% favorite and wins. He refers to KK as a "low pocket pair."

Case 2: Hero gets his money in as a 28.28% favorite and wins. He had decent pot odds, but... [ QUOTE ]
After the hand villain complained about a suckout. I then informed him that I was a favourite both preflop and postflop, and there isnt really anything else to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
CASE 4.... BONUS CASE: I probably shouldnt post this hand, since it gives away a lot of valuable information about the current poker metagame. I'm sure after this hand, it will become very clear how dominant AK really is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero shares his secret: AK > AQ

I am forever in debt to your priceless advice.

Re: Theory: on AK

Great post Dan, I feel like others may now catch up to our level of play -- right when I was learning NL, Dan taught me the AK is the nuts preflop and postflop no matter what theorem when he called my preflop 6-bet shove and beat my AJ [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
Case 1: Hero gets his money in as a 33.69% favorite and wins. He refers to KK as a "low pocket pair."

Case 2: Hero gets his money in as a 28.28% favorite and wins. He had decent pot odds, but... [ QUOTE ]
After the hand villain complained about a suckout. I then informed him that I was a favourite both preflop and postflop, and there isnt really anything else to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
CASE 4.... BONUS CASE: I probably shouldnt post this hand, since it gives away a lot of valuable information about the current poker metagame. I'm sure after this hand, it will become very clear how dominant AK really is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero shares his secret: AK > AQ

I am forever in debt to your priceless advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL WHY WOULD WE TAKE ADVICE FROM SOMEONE WHO FOLDS THE NUTS FACE UP U FISH

Re: Theory: on AK

Dan you made some good points. I appreciate you sharing this with us.

Re: Theory: on AK

xlledx,

I need an easy friend
I do, with an ear to lend
I do think you fit this shoe
I do, wont you have a clue

Ill take advantage while
You hang me out to dry
But i cant see you every night
FREE

I'm standing in your light
I do hope you have the time
I do pick up number two
I do keep a date with you

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

No they are not!!

villain 40/20

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($394.50)
MP ($136.80)
CO ($849.85)
Button ($154)
SB ($556)
Hero ($310.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, SB raises to $16, Hero raises to $56, SB raises to $160, Hero raises to $310.75, SB calls $150.75.

Flop: ($621.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: ($621.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($621.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $621.50

Results in white below: 
SB has Th Ts (two pair, tens and fives).
Hero has Kc Ah (one pair, fives).
Outcome: SB wins $621.50.

Re: Theory: on AK

rock - sometimes even with the nuts you can get outdrawn. Thats poker.

Re: Theory: on AK

lol....low PP...KK...nice

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
Great post Dan, I feel like others may now catch up to our level of play -- right when I was learning NL, Dan taught me the AK is the nuts preflop and postflop no matter what theorem when he called my preflop 6-bet shove and beat my AJ [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]
lol nuts vs second nuts, that's just a cooler baby.

Re: Theory: on AK

Oh man!

When I read this title I had so much hope there might be some good advice or at least a good start to some good discussion out there.

Little did I know... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

Yah Donovan, I think everyone is sad we couldnt help you more when you have contributed one post in the near-year you have been lurking here.

Re: Theory: on AK

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
Oh man!

When I read this title I had so much hope there might be some good advice or at least a good start to some good discussion out there.

Little did I know... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

what's the thinking behind this post? you've probably read hundreds of threads, if not more, and have posted precisely once to date. and then you decide this comment just had to be said?

Re: Theory: on AK

Lol, you're right guys, I guess I deserve this [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

Everyone lols but i use this strategy exactly wtf i dont know who is joking am i a fish???

Re: Theory: on AK

sick post, whenever I fold Ak im pretty sure im making a mistake.

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
whenever I fold Ak

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf

Re: Theory: on AK

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($504)
SB ($80)
BB ($134.10)
UTG ($400)
MP ($760.70)
CO ($400)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $8, MP raises to $28, 1 fold, Hero raises to $80, 2 folds, UTG folds, MP calls $52.

Flop: ($174) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $150, MP raises to $400, Hero raises to $424, MP calls $24.

Turn: ($1022) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($1022) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $1022

Results in white below: 
MP has Qc Qh (flush, king high).
Hero has Ah Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: MP wins $1022.

Re: Theory: on AK

I donno what to say, you had the nuts and got outdrawn, as has been stated numerous times, the nuts do get outdrawn from time to time.

Re: Theory: on AK

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

dan you original post is awful yet really funny at the same time.

Re: Theory: on AK

[ QUOTE ]
Little does he know, AK is the nuts preflop, and I refuse to fold the nuts. Villain has very little misclick-equity vs a seasoned mouse veteran such as myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Theory: on AK

Hint: Villain, perhaps you shouldnt half pot the river into the nuts. Better luck next time.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($759.17)
Button ($676)
SB ($1398.75)
BB ($1113.03)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
Hero raises to $24, Button calls $24, 2 folds.

Flop: ($57) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, Button calls $50.

Turn: ($157) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($157) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $77, Hero calls $685.17 (All-In), Button folds.

Final Pot: $919.17

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Ks (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins $919.17.

Re: Theory: on AK

sklansky, malmuth, and bright