77 river decision (NL100)
 

The hand before this the btn minraised and I 3bet 1010 in the BB. He min4bet me and I called. The flop came 10 high and I c/c two streets AI to bust AA. This is a different player. I don't have any reads other than 17/9/2.5 over 700 hands.

Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $17.85
UTG+1: $84.50
MP1: $117.45
MP2: $177.55
CO: $134
BTN: $97
Hero (SB): $374.50
BB: $115.45

Pre-Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
5 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $3</font>, Hero calls $2.50, BB folds

Flop: ($7) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($13) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10

River: ($33) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $36</font>, Hero ???

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

I lead the flop or better c/r the flop if i think villain will fold AK. As played, i fold the river. Can´t see him firing again with worse.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop or better c/r the flop if i think villain will fold AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he folds AK, then only better hands call and worse hands fold to your raise.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

The flop bet size is strange. My instinct on the river was that this is probably going to be a busted heart draw or a hand that involves a 6. I dunno, that would be some strange value betting if it was anything else.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

i fold this quickly

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

What is your Name? Called down light.
Of course you call. You may lose 52 bucks toal, but you would build up a nice image and get more reads on this opponent.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

Flop is fine but I fold turn, whiffed overs or flush draw are starting to look unlikely by that point. Def fold river as played without a very specific read.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

such an easy fold on turn.. a raise on the flop is probably better than calling.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

b/f&gt;c/r&gt;c/c on flop

fold turn 100%

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop or better c/r the flop if i think villain will fold AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he folds AK, then only better hands call and worse hands fold to your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the problem with that ?
This is a spot where i want worse hands to fold, as any overcard will make my hand very difficult to play. I want to take the pot right here.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop or better c/r the flop if i think villain will fold AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he folds AK, then only better hands call and worse hands fold to your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the contrary, if you get him to put more money in the pot drawing at 6 outs you've induced a mistake. Check/calling all three streets allows villain to play perfectly where you are often the one calling down with the worst hand drawing at 2 outs and giving him opportunities for free cards to draw out on you. The bigger the pot gets, the bigger a mistake it is to give free cards, especially with a hand that's vulnerable to so many overcards and potential draws. Raising the flop allows you to find out where you stand earlier, rather than later...

As played I think the river is a fold. The only hands you beat are 22, 44 and missed draws, however I really think that most of villains range includes made hands that we are losing to. Even the majority of pairs you beat preflop you are now behind.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

I really think that c/r and b/f flop both suck. I thought about b3b though. I think leading makes this tough to play though if I take any line other than b3b as b/f is pretty weak for me. I pretty much only b/f air, whenever else I lead the flop its with the intention of getting it AI.

Also, I'm not looking to make the hand easy to play. I could care less. I'm looking for the most +ev line. I think folding the turn is a mistake tbh. I have a much much wider range than most of you probably and 77 has some good value here. On one hand the river looks like a bluff figuring me for a missed draw. On the other it looks like he could be vbetting K9+ (vbetting thinner seems a little bad with this sizing). Its just about figuring out frequencies.

As for the only hands I beat being missed draws, I completely disagree. I think he will definitely have air here a decent % of the time (say 20%).

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lead the flop or better c/r the flop if i think villain will fold AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he folds AK, then only better hands call and worse hands fold to your raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the contrary, if you get him to put more money in the pot drawing at 6 outs you've induced a mistake. Check/calling all three streets allows villain to play perfectly where you are often the one calling down with the worst hand drawing at 2 outs and giving him opportunities for free cards to draw out on you. The bigger the pot gets, the bigger a mistake it is to give free cards, especially with a hand that's vulnerable to so many overcards and potential draws. Raising the flop allows you to find out where you stand earlier, rather than later...

As played I think the river is a fold. The only hands you beat are 22, 44 and missed draws, however I really think that most of villains range includes made hands that we are losing to. Even the majority of pairs you beat preflop you are now behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking a week ago, but I started trying to think differently after this thread.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

The 2 hands are totally different. In the other hand you have position, top pair and pickup a nice draw on the turn. You have the advantage of seeing how each street plays before deciding what to do.

In this hand you have a weak made hand out of position. You have to bet blindly into another player on a board that's really not that great for your hand and gives you little chance to improve, if your outs are even good.

The 2 hands should not be played the same. Try not to take advice too stringently. You have to apply concepts differently based on a variety of situations in poker, that's why people often say it's such a situational game.

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

nobody like to 3bet preflop?

i fold turn here .when i am IP i raise it. but it depends really on villian if he could lay down a hand. A turn raise is so powerful and you have 7 outs.
flop raise IP is nice too.
but this hand is in oop. you should lay it down on the turn.

even if he is firing 2barrels w/overcards i am not happy to call him down oop and its not worth to find it out.

some stats plz: attempt to steal blinds?

Re: 77 river decision (NL100)
 

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3bet preflop.

As played:

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Bet the flop (and turn if he calls).