WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

This is the last hand before the second break, and the majority of the players folded and then left the table to go on break. There are only 4 players actually at the table, and its folded to a loose-aggressive, young player in the CO who raises to $300 at the 50/100 level. I reraise him to $1200 with A7sp. I did this because he was raising a lot and I thought he was just trying to pick up the last pot before the break, plus I have a tight image, and I think most of the time he will give up his mediocre hands he is raising with pretty easily.

He calls after about 10 seconds.

The flop comes T83 all spades. I have about 20k and he has me covered. I lead for $1300 and he instantly calls. The turn is the 10 of clubs. I bet again, this time $2500. He thinks for little then raises to $6000 total.

I am not quite sure what to do at this point. Any suggestions?

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

Stacks?

And you flopped a flush i assume? I think im getting it in here (stacks would be nice lol), b/c of his flop insta call i think he has like AT, JTs etc a lot.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I just don't see myself folding this vs a loose-agressive player. If he is anything like me his range is so wide here, that it's not even close:)

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I think you gotta call and c/c a river blank, and maybe c/f a river spade. This is a boat/flush an awful lot, unless he's bad.

If he's bad, get it in, but I'm guessing you wouldn't have posted this if you knew he was bad.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

bet 1750 on the flop

stack off in whichever wa y you see fit

/end thread quickly

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is the last hand before the second break, and the majority of the players folded and then left the table to go on break. There are only 4 players actually at the table, and its folded to a loose-aggressive, young player in the CO who raises to $300 at the 50/100 level. I reraise him to $1200 with A7sp. I did this because he was raising a lot and I thought he was just trying to pick up the last pot before the break, plus I have a tight image, and I think most of the time he will give up his mediocre hands he is raising with pretty easily.

He calls after about 10 seconds.

The flop comes T83 all spades. I have about 20k and he has me covered. I lead for $1300 and he instantly calls. The turn is the 10 of clubs. I bet again, this time $2500. He thinks for little then raises to $6000 total.

I am not quite sure what to do at this point. Any suggestions?

[/ QUOTE ]

I go all-in.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

if you call the turn you should always jam a river blank imo, its automatic... but i think there are too many bad river cards to call the turn, id just stick it in, i think Tx calls a lot which is IMO his most likely hand, it's so rare he has a boat here given flop action, people don't just call that flop with a set or two pair.

i also bet more on the flop.

anyway yeah the only reason to call the turn is so that you can cram the river for value, but i think a spade could kill your action and obviously the board double pairing would suck a lot. and folding is out of the question. so i like 3betting ALL IN.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet 1750 on the flop

stack off in whichever wa y you see fit

/end thread quickly

[/ QUOTE ]

srsly, wtf

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I would tank, call, and check the river with the intention of calling whatever he bets.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

do you really think he is flat calling on the flop with a set or top two pair? He probably has J10s or 910s and is betting for value, you gotta reraise here for value in my opinion, or maybe flat call repping an over pair with a club so he can bet the river hard. I think you must play this hand for value all the way.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you really think he is flat calling on the flop with a set or top two pair? He probably has J10s or 910s and is betting for value, you gotta reraise here for value in my opinion, or maybe flat call repping an over pair with a club so he can bet the river hard. I think you must play this hand for value all the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet 1750 on the flop

stack off in whichever wa y you see fit

/end thread quickly

[/ QUOTE ]

He flopped the nuts, wtf cares about the flop bet. This is close. I don't think he has a full house here. He is probably raising a set on this board. If he has a smaller flush that would be sweet and I think he may call a shove.

Results pls

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

i dont really think hes worried about a full house, hes just worried about extracting the most. this is a tough spot, because if he's as aggro as you say, its most likely that he probably has air here. tough spot, but i like a reraise here the best.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

Shove

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

it would be really bad to flat to flat a set on this type of board. He most likely has the ten and most likely will go broke when he turns the set. so stack him please.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I like a shove, if you had position calling woulda been better prolly.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

Waiting for the river is not going to help you get the money in as compared to just shoving the turn. Either he's got something he can call a shove with on the turn, or he doesn't and almost certainly won't on the river unless he hits a 2-outter on you or something. Moreover, a spade on the river WILL cause him to fold Tx (no spade).

Shove now.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
... there are too many bad river cards to call the turn, id just stick it in......it's so rare he has a boat here given flop action, people don't just call that flop with a set or two pair....the only reason to call the turn is so that you can cram the river for value, but i think a spade could kill your action .... folding is out of the question......i like 3betting ALL IN.

[/ QUOTE ]


Arrr In, for these reasons.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

Ok, if Tx is in the guy's turn raising range, this is an AI. IDK that it is, and if he's any good, it definitely isn't.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I saw the hand, but I didn't see preflop action. This is a sick hand, and I can't see myself folding in a rr'ed pot. Lee did though.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw the hand, but I didn't see preflop action. This is a sick hand, and I can't see myself folding in a rr'ed pot. Lee did though.

[/ QUOTE ]

wha? he folded to the 4500-chip raise?

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

I'm not looking for value here, I am looking to see a free showdown on the river. His raise size kind of confused me as well. It seemed like a small value raise, but I'm not sure if he is value'ing a boat or a flush (I think he would flat the turn with trips). I also think he is the type of player to raise a flush on the flop, especially since he doesn't have the ace of spades.

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

wow...

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
wow...

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I think this is a pretty bad fold.
What do you think he has?

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

I'm with everyone else here, there's no way he filled up on the turn because he would have raised the monochrome flop with 2 pair or a set. Whether he would raise the turn with a T is much murkier.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

you do realize that not much of your pf 3betting range includes hands that beat a 6 high flush on this board, right?

so if he has every correct reason to think a 6 high flush is the nuts...

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
you do realize that not much of your pf 3betting range includes hands that beat a 6 high flush on this board, right?

so if he has every correct reason to think a 6 high flush is the nuts...

[/ QUOTE ]

And like srsly man, you have the nut flush and his line isn't exactly consistent with a boat.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

I'm not looking for value here, I am looking to see a free showdown on the river. His raise size kind of confused me as well. It seemed like a small value raise, but I'm not sure if he is value'ing a boat or a flush (I think he would flat the turn with trips). I also think he is the type of player to raise a flush on the flop, especially since he doesn't have the ace of spades.

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.



[/ QUOTE ]

wowowowowowowowowowowowoow. no fkn way i am folding the nutflush to a loose-aggressive player who raised from the CO on the last hand b4 break. I lay 4-1 you folded the best hand.

Edit to add: Given the table dynamics, this plays about the same as a blind vs blind hand. Would you ever fold this here in a blind vs blind vs any player other than Nitty McFolderson?

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

I'm not looking for value here, I am looking to see a free showdown on the river. His raise size kind of confused me as well. It seemed like a small value raise, but I'm not sure if he is value'ing a boat or a flush (I think he would flat the turn with trips). I also think he is the type of player to raise a flush on the flop, especially since he doesn't have the ace of spades.

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.



[/ QUOTE ]

??

Your call the turn and check the river, what did you think he put you on when he shoved? When the pot is that big, don't you expect he'd shove his remaining stack if we check to him at the river?

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

I'm not looking for value here, I am looking to see a free showdown on the river. His raise size kind of confused me as well. It seemed like a small value raise, but I'm not sure if he is value'ing a boat or a flush (I think he would flat the turn with trips). I also think he is the type of player to raise a flush on the flop, especially since he doesn't have the ace of spades.

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.



[/ QUOTE ]

??

You call the turn and check the river, what did he put you on when he shoved?

[/ QUOTE ]

prob something a tad weaker than the nut flush...

like JJ.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

Bill this ahnd is really bad he could be slowplaying 100 other flush combos and trying to get value from them now.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

I'm not looking for value here, I am looking to see a free showdown on the river. His raise size kind of confused me as well. It seemed like a small value raise, but I'm not sure if he is value'ing a boat or a flush (I think he would flat the turn with trips). I also think he is the type of player to raise a flush on the flop, especially since he doesn't have the ace of spades.

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.



[/ QUOTE ]

??

You call the turn and check the river, what did he put you on when he shoved?

[/ QUOTE ]

prob something a tad weaker than the nut flush...

like JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, you played your hand like As8h to him.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

wow no.

it's the last hand before the break! he has two cards! ugh.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
wow no.

it's the last hand before the break! he has two cards! ugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

OP: no offense at all. Just think fold is wrong. Good luck.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

Not to flame buddy, but I also hate your fold

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

I'm not looking for value here, I am looking to see a free showdown on the river. His raise size kind of confused me as well. It seemed like a small value raise, but I'm not sure if he is value'ing a boat or a flush (I think he would flat the turn with trips). I also think he is the type of player to raise a flush on the flop, especially since he doesn't have the ace of spades.

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.



[/ QUOTE ]

??

You call the turn and check the river, what did he put you on when he shoved?

[/ QUOTE ]

prob something a tad weaker than the nut flush...

like JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, you played your hand like As8h to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

if villain thinks bill has As8x, why would he shove river?

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I should have included this in the OP, but the villain in this hand probably recognizes I am a solid internet player and am not some random donk.

I think you guys are taking "loose-aggressive, young player" for more than what it is. He wasn't getting out of line too often, he was just playing a lot of pots and C-betting most flops.

....

I decided to call, and the river was a red 2, I checked, and he said "all-in" pretty quickly and I folded.



[/ QUOTE ]


I figured that he knows that you know that he's an aggressive player etc...that, and the fact that it's the last hand before break means you can absolutely not fold. I was going to say push the turn, because I feel like that's the best way to get his money in there. You managed to get him to stack off anyway, but def. blew it by folding. I think you should just fold preflop and use the extra time to go the bathroom during break if you're going to take this line.

Edit: The "last-hand-before-break" aspect of this isn't that important at the 50/100 level, and you misrepresented the hand originally by saying he was a loose-agressive-young player, when u seem to be saying he was just a competent/thinking player...anyway, even if you had told us this guy was a nit, most people would be clamoring for chips to go in the pot somehow.

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]

if villain thinks bill has As8x, why would he shove river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he has 78o, I don't even give him credit for having a T here. Villain knows he can't beat most of our ranges at showdown.

His river shove (when we check to him) confirms we are way ahead...

Re: WPT Niagara, Last hand before the break...
 

[ QUOTE ]

if villain thinks bill has As8x, why would he shove river?

[/ QUOTE ]

if he can't beat a pair of eights, or the As. Decent chance the river shove is a bluff.