Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

Question: At Red Rock there is one female limit player regular who consistantly miscalls her hand at showdown. I have played with her many times, and she does many other angle-shooting things like intentionally checking out of turn, etc so I know for 100% fact it is not just her "trying to be cute". Example: I saw her once intentionally not post her BB even after prompting- push her cards over the line "mucking", then after the dealer told her again it was her BB she "reluctantly" posted and of course had pocket AA. I bring this up only to assert that I think all of this is intentional.

So anyway, she will constantly triumphantly throw her hand down at showdown immediately and announce "flush" or "straight" when she has a busted draw.
So lets assume a board of 9d 10d Qs 6s 8h - she calls down out of SB headsup and river goes check-check - and she truimphantly throws down her 2d3d and says "flush".

Situation 1: opponent turbo mucks and cards are not retrievable
Situation 2: opponent turbo mucks but cards are easily retrievable - but say touching muck slightly
Situation 3: opponent puts cards face down just over the line
Situation 4: opponent beats her to death with his chair but accidentally drops card on floor while doing so
What would floor do in above situations?

Also,
What is the dealers role when she does this? I've never seen any dealer give a warning to her for this. Let's say opponent turbomucks and no one is objecting to her behavior.

[Note I am was not involved in any of the above situations - I know what she is doing and so it not an issue for me personally, but of course it annoys me that someone is blatently angle-shooting.]

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

she automatically loses the pot to whoever was left at showdown. Miscalling your hands intentionally should require a player to be banned. It is understood that occasionally players miscall their hands, but players are not required to call their hands in the first place so continued miscalling needs to be given tough remedies.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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she automatically loses the pot to whoever was left at showdown.

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I don't want to sway the discussion, but this was my impression as well. However, when I brought this up to the floor away from the table as I was leaving (I didn't identify the player) as a "hypothetical", he told me it was the player's responsibility to protect their hand so the angle-shooter gets the pot in cases 1 and 2, and that in case 3 where the cards are just a few inches in front of him - the dealer should state what the hand actually is and give a chance for the player to flip his cards back over.

I didn't ask about situation 4.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

I had an old regular do this to my friend when I was drunking it up at 2/4 Canterbury. He called something like flush when my buddy had top pair and tabled his hand.

I told my buddy there was no flush out there. He tabled his hand and scooped. The old regular told me to let my friend play his own hand, I told him something of the effect of, "don't [censored] angle shoot douchebag." I got a stern talking to by the floor, and he ignored the old guy's angle.

It was pretty funny.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

If it doesn't bother you to take her down a bit just say at the table at showdown she's done this in the past. Surely if she gets called out on it the whole table will be more careful in future if they play again with her.

I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, when I brought this up to the floor away from the table as I was leaving (I didn't identify the player) as a "hypothetical", he told me it was the player's responsibility to protect their hand so the angle-shooter gets the pot in cases 1 and 2

[/ QUOTE ]

I just can't adjust to this simple fact of life: 99% of the floormen in this world don't know the rules.

I should expect floormen to blow this one (like the floorman mentioned above). I shouldn't lose my patience when it happens.

But it drives me so nuts that I'm seriously considering another profession.

It gets worse when I explain to people, "If a player intentionally miscalls his hand, causing opponent to muck, opponent gets the pot," and NOBODY BELIEVES ME. They think I made it up.

They go ask a floorman, and the floorman never heard of such a thing, so either he's wrong or I'm wrong. Well, he's wearing a tie, and I'm not, so his vote counts for more than mine, even though he's never read a written set of rules in his life.

Wow, I'm getting angry just typing this. Does anybody know of a good-paying job for a lazy, non-college-graduate who sucks at selling things and refuses to wear a suit? Yeah, I didn't think so. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

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It would bother me to be at the table with a angleshooting cheater. Why wouldn't it bother you?

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
I had an old regular do this to my friend when I was drunking it up at 2/4 Canterbury. He called something like flush when my buddy had top pair and tabled his hand.

I told my buddy there was no flush out there. He tabled his hand and scooped. The old regular told me to let my friend play his own hand, I told him something of the effect of, "don't [censored] angle shoot douchebag." I got a stern talking to by the floor, and he ignored the old guy's angle.

It was pretty funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

If both players had already tabled their hands (it wasn't clear from your description above), then cards speak. Consequently, I would be extremely concerned about a floorperson who either doesn't realize this, or does know this but is actively attempting to protect the interests of an angleshooting regular.

If your buddy had not yet tabled his hand, you shouldn't have said "There is no flush out there," or made any comments about if he should call or fold. However, I assume you have the right to call out any tabled hand--meaning you could have said "He has a pair of jacks."

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

I'm sure other players hate me for this, but if I were at the table, I'd say, "There's no flush possible," even if I wasn't in the hand. I do this because I play 1/2NL, and most of those players don't know what's going on. I hate to see people taken advantage of, and I do something about it whenever I can. If I were playing at a level where I thought people should be able to take care of themselves, I wouldn't say a word. However, people who are just learning deserve a little help and deserve not to have people trying to cheat them.

I'd do everything I could to let the table, dealer, and floor know what this woman was up to. It's pathetic.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

As bad as it sounds, verbal descriptions of the hand mean nothing. This is really the key to getting over the problem.

If the National Enquirer keeps publishing crap, who's to blame - them or the people who keep buying it?

If everyone understood that speaking your hand is meaningless, this problem would go away quietly by itself. It would hold no more authority than that player "lying" by bluffing her hand on the river. You don't take that as gospel, and neither should you take what she says when she shows her cards. It has no meaning in the game whatsoever.

It's the dealer's job to describe the winning hand. If the dealer is not doing his job, then it's the player's job to figure out what she has. What she's doing is creepy, but all the players should know the rules when they sit down at a poker table. And the rules say that cards speak, not players.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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Wow, I'm getting angry just typing this. Does anybody know of a good-paying job for a lazy, non-college-graduate who sucks at selling things and refuses to wear a suit? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could deal Blackjack.

I do agree with you. However in the case of the OP we don't know if the floor doesn't know the rules or was just throwing out an answer to get this guy to leave. Floorpeople who answer player's hypothetical questions are just asking for trouble. Why because the player is going to go and try to cause the hypothetical to happen, but when the floor gets to the table he may find the situation to be different than the hypothetical and rule differently.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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If it doesn't bother you to take her down a bit just say at the table at showdown she's done this in the past. Surely if she gets called out on it the whole table will be more careful in future if they play again with her.

I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, this bitch is bad for the game. I would call her out every time she pulled a move. For example, next time she pulls the big blind 'trick', I'd tell the table that last time she did this she had AA. Everytime she calls out her hand I'd say "careful, she has a habit of mis-calling her hands". Do it enough and hopefully she'll leave. Or she'll go on tilt and try to beat you out of pots, so value bet her until she's broke.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

[/ QUOTE ]

It would bother me to be at the table with a angleshooting cheater. Why wouldn't it bother you?

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Lol you have misquoted me, my whole reply was suggesting it bothered me enough to call the lady out over it. I was just saying in my last sentence I didn;t know whether the OP wa the type to speak out or just look after his own interests.

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Well, he's wearing a tie, and I'm not, so his vote counts for more than mine...

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Good one...

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

1. Deliberately miscalling your hand causing another player to fold means your hand is dead. That's a rule and any cardroom/floor that doesn't know that rule is not a place I want to play in. The pot gets awarded to the heads up opponent even if his hand is irretrievable. If there are multiple opponents, the best hand wins or if those cards are also mucked, those opponents split the pot.

2. All players in the game have the moral responsibility to keep the integrity of the game intact. This means that any dealt in player can point out incorrect bet/raise amounts, blinds not posting, stopping out of turn action and can help in reading a tabled hand at showdown. Players can't talk about strategy during a hand but they certainly can (and should) bring up breaches of rules.

3. If I am at a table with this angleshooter, then his/her actions are hurting me and the other players and I will speak up whenever she does so. I will be very hard on this person and will do things like call her tabled hand every time or bring up any other rules infraction. However, I don't think I would go as far as describing a tell like having a premium hand in BB, even between hands.

4. I would get the floor involved early and describe the actions of this person. Most cardrooms should recognize that this type of player is bad for their game.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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1. Deliberatly miscalling your hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Woman in OP says "I thought the river [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] was a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]"

Nobody, even dealers, ever misread the board. So it may be hard to prove that the player "deliberately" miscalled his/her hand.

But then, I misread my hand once. Thought I made a small straight on the turn. When called on the river, I declared "Straight" and my opponent mucked. I was shocked when I saw I had nothing. Not even a pair. I told the dealer to just give my opponent the pot.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Deliberatly miscalling your hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Woman in OP says "I thought the river [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] was a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]"

Nobody, even dealers, ever misread the board. So it may be hard to prove that the player "deliberately" miscalled his/her hand.

But then, I misread my hand once. Thought I made a small straight on the turn. When called on the river, I declared "Straight" and my opponent mucked. I was shocked when I saw I had nothing. Not even a pair. I told the dealer to just give my opponent the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct that if its a single incident it may be legitmately a mistake. But if the player has a pattern of miscalling her hand and only miscalling it higher than it is then its probably not a mistake.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

youtalkfunny,

When you say that the rule is that the angleshooter automatically loses the pot, where are you getting this info? I'm guessing from robert's rules of poker, but not every casino has the same rules. Do you know if this applies at commerce or hollywood park? It'd be sweet if it did. I hate these angleshooting sleezebags. Of course, I've never been fooled by one though.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

What worries me is that, like most rules, it probably depends on where you're playing.

I've been tempted to turbomuck a winner when someone intentionally miscalls their hand (there are two people I play with often who do this) to teach them a lesson, but I'm afraid it will backfire when I get a floorman who doesn't know the rules.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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What worries me is that, like most rules, it probably depends on where you're playing.

I've been tempted to turbomuck a winner when someone intentionally miscalls their hand (there are two people I play with often who do this) to teach them a lesson, but I'm afraid it will backfire when I get a floorman who doesn't know the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the solution is turbo muck a loser then claim it was a winner (I don't actually advocate doing this)

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

It's tough to prove a 'miscalled' hand, even though everyone knows what she's doing.

However, when she pulled the trick with the AA in the BB, I may have called the floor, and mentioned that she's been angle shooting, miscalling hands, etc.

See how the floor handles it -- if the floor is sympathetic, every time she tries to pull this, call the floor again.

If the floor isn't sympathetic, ask for a new table or find a different casino.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

Note that this is a separate issue from the case where someone miscalls a hand without tabling. She shows her cards to everybody, therefore her cards speak more loudly than she does. I don't think anybody would have a case for claiming the pot after mucking to her showdown.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
youtalkfunny,

When you say that the rule is that the angleshooter automatically loses the pot, where are you getting this info? I'm guessing from robert's rules of poker, but not every casino has the same rules. Do you know if this applies at commerce or hollywood park? It'd be sweet if it did. I hate these angleshooting sleezebags. Of course, I've never been fooled by one though.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a standard rule. I don't think it is in Robert's. It generally does apply in LA as they still have rules for lowball and this rule originated in lowball.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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However, when I brought this up to the floor away from the table as I was leaving (I didn't identify the player) as a "hypothetical", he told me it was the player's responsibility to protect their hand so the angle-shooter gets the pot in cases 1 and 2

[/ QUOTE ]

I just can't adjust to this simple fact of life: 99% of the floormen in this world don't know the rules.

I should expect floormen to blow this one (like the floorman mentioned above). I shouldn't lose my patience when it happens.

But it drives me so nuts that I'm seriously considering another profession.

It gets worse when I explain to people, "If a player intentionally miscalls his hand, causing opponent to muck, opponent gets the pot," and NOBODY BELIEVES ME. They think I made it up.

They go ask a floorman, and the floorman never heard of such a thing, so either he's wrong or I'm wrong. Well, he's wearing a tie, and I'm not, so his vote counts for more than mine, even though he's never read a written set of rules in his life.

Wow, I'm getting angry just typing this. Does anybody know of a good-paying job for a lazy, non-college-graduate who sucks at selling things and refuses to wear a suit? Yeah, I didn't think so. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ] Well, I know from experience that it IS the players responsibility to protect his own hand. If no-one complains to the management about the angleshooter management cann't do anything about it. Most management,floors included will find a way to talk to this person and punish them should they continue BUT there is generally no written rule against it in most establishments. Poker is ideally a "morals & ethics" game, meaning that many of the "rules" people spek of are not actually rules in an established room but a moral & ethical responsibility of the players themseves to play in a fair manner. ie; not intentionally miscalling ones hand. I personally feel pity on at least 1/3 of the floor people out there for putting up with all the "experts" that seem to know all the rules but not the ethics and love playing with people that care enough about fair play to get mad about it. Many people simply have misconceptions between home games and established rooms,even though most experienced floor people will try to enforce ethics & morals they usually don't have the backing of written rules.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Deliberatly miscalling your hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Woman in OP says "I thought the river [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] was a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]"

Nobody, even dealers, ever misread the board. So it may be hard to prove that the player "deliberately" miscalled his/her hand.

But then, I misread my hand once. Thought I made a small straight on the turn. When called on the river, I declared "Straight" and my opponent mucked. I was shocked when I saw I had nothing. Not even a pair. I told the dealer to just give my opponent the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
We all appreciate your integrity but for those who aren't so ethical, don't you want a rule in place where they are forced to give up the pot rather than rely on their charity?

Personally, if a player overcalls their hand, causing another player to muck, they should have to give up the pot because they probably have a crap hand and were beaten. I don't care if they did it deliberately or not.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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I do agree with you. However in the case of the OP we don't know if the floor doesn't know the rules or was just throwing out an answer to get this guy to leave. Floorpeople who answer player's hypothetical questions are just asking for trouble. Why because the player is going to go and try to cause the hypothetical to happen, but when the floor gets to the table he may find the situation to be different than the hypothetical and rule differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is possible, but there were two other dealers sitting at the table at the time where I was talking to the floor, and this is a recent dealer-turned-floor so he is trying to be more helpful than most. So in other words I think he was trying to give me a real answer.
I do agree floors rarely want to answer these questions away from the table. I'd probably be the same way after getting burned a few times.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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[ QUOTE ]
If it doesn't bother you to take her down a bit just say at the table at showdown she's done this in the past. Surely if she gets called out on it the whole table will be more careful in future if they play again with her.

I know you aren't the poker police but it clearly bothers you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, this bitch is bad for the game. I would call her out every time she pulled a move. For example, next time she pulls the big blind 'trick', I'd tell the table that last time she did this she had AA. Everytime she calls out her hand I'd say "careful, she has a habit of mis-calling her hands". Do it enough and hopefully she'll leave. Or she'll go on tilt and try to beat you out of pots, so value bet her until she's broke.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am reluctant to police the lady.
She is a regular and plays with some friends there, sometimes late at night she will have two or three friends at the table (only table going) so I don't have much interest in making multiple enemies in this type of situation. That's gotta be -EV --- known angleshooter and friends all ganging up on you.

Also, she has some other "moves" that are probably not clear angleshots that since I know what they mean - I can exploit. I know of one instance last night where I for sure saved a river bet not value betting my two pair because I knew she made a flush on the river (a real one this time, lol)

I do wonder whether I have a "responsibility" to some extent, I don't understand why the dealers don't have a talk with her, they may just think she is trying to be cute miscalling her hand since they are only dealing to her for 30 minutes at a time.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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I don't understand why the dealers don't have a talk with her, they may just think she is trying to be cute miscalling her hand since they are only dealing to her for 30 minutes at a time.

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Is she a better-than-average tipper? The answer to your question, quoted above, may lie in her tipping proclivity.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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I am reluctant to police the lady.
She is a regular and plays with some friends there, sometimes late at night she will have two or three friends at the table (only table going) so I don't have much interest in making multiple enemies in this type of situation. That's gotta be -EV --- known angleshooter and friends all ganging up on you.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like this room isn't getting a lot of business. Might be because honest joes looking to relax after a hard days work with a square game get tired of the angle-shooting and incompetent floor and go elsewhere?

If this is your card room, you have a responsibility to yourself and every other player to see it is run right. How aggressive you want to be is up to you, but if you call her on mis-calling her hands enough she'll at least quit doing it and that will improve your game (some). Or you can remain happy playing against oily angle shooters who run off all the fish.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

Well, this is Red Rock Station - the limit games took a hit when they raised the rake - it is slowly coming back now that they reversed that decision. NL does great there. The floor is usually pretty good, and the dealers usually great, but there do seem consistantly reluctant to go after the regulars on stuff, which pisses me off.

I play regularly, am a winning player at limit games there, but am not playing primarily for the money. So I don't really care all that much about her action's meta-effects on the room at large. And she doesn't play 8-16 anyway (but I've been playing 4-8 lately since the 8-16 is only going ~4x a week lately.) I don't see any real advantage to me going after her when the dealers and floor won't, if I was a grinding pro I might feel differently about the situation. Maybe I am in the wrong on this, I dunno?

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

"Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)"

From Lowball Rule 15:

"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

http://pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules6.htm

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

The lesson for this thread as with many is to table your hand correctly and let the deal determine victory. She can miscall her hand until the cows come home, but if people just keep tabling their hands she will stop doing it.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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[ QUOTE ]
However, when I brought this up to the floor away from the table as I was leaving (I didn't identify the player) as a "hypothetical", he told me it was the player's responsibility to protect their hand so the angle-shooter gets the pot in cases 1 and 2

[/ QUOTE ]

I just can't adjust to this simple fact of life: 99% of the floormen in this world don't know the rules.

I should expect floormen to blow this one (like the floorman mentioned above). I shouldn't lose my patience when it happens.

But it drives me so nuts that I'm seriously considering another profession.

It gets worse when I explain to people, "If a player intentionally miscalls his hand, causing opponent to muck, opponent gets the pot," and NOBODY BELIEVES ME. They think I made it up.

They go ask a floorman, and the floorman never heard of such a thing, so either he's wrong or I'm wrong. Well, he's wearing a tie, and I'm not, so his vote counts for more than mine, even though he's never read a written set of rules in his life.

Wow, I'm getting angry just typing this. Does anybody know of a good-paying job for a lazy, non-college-graduate who sucks at selling things and refuses to wear a suit? Yeah, I didn't think so. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]

So the solution is turbo muck a loser then claim it was a winner (I don't actually advocate doing this)


[/ QUOTE ]

honestly, they deserve worse

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

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what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]


"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this is Red Rock Station - the limit games took a hit when they raised the rake - it is slowly coming back now that they reversed that decision. NL does great there. The floor is usually pretty good, and the dealers usually great, but there do seem consistantly reluctant to go after the regulars on stuff, which pisses me off.

I play regularly, am a winning player at limit games there, but am not playing primarily for the money. So I don't really care all that much about her action's meta-effects on the room at large. And she doesn't play 8-16 anyway (but I've been playing 4-8 lately since the 8-16 is only going ~4x a week lately.) I don't see any real advantage to me going after her when the dealers and floor won't, if I was a grinding pro I might feel differently about the situation. Maybe I am in the wrong on this, I dunno?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rather than calling her out in front of the table every time she does it, you could try alerting the floor as quietly as possible every time she does it. If you keep bugging the floor, they might start paying attention, pick up on it and say something to her on their own.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

he floors probably have a pretty good idea who the regular problem players are. By complaining you give the floors who want to do something a reason to act.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what if there were two players who mucked there cards. who would you reward the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]


"15. ...If you miscall your hand and cause another player to foul his or her hand, your hand is dead. If both hands remain intact, the best hand wins. If a miscalled hand occurs in a multihanded pot, the miscalled hand is dead, and the best remaining hand wins the pot. For your own protection, always hold your hand until you see your opponent’s cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

i asked: what if there were three players in the pot, player A misscall his hand, and player B and C fold. who gets the pot?/?

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

At foxwoods 4/8 about a week ago, a guy showed his hand and said trips. The other player in the showdown flipped his and said two pair, then pushed his hand in the middle. The dealer was already shoving the pot at the trips guy when 2 or 3 other players said the second guy had a straight. The second guy was an older gentleman sitting at the far end of table and had several times had trouble seeing the cards at the far end of the board.

Well, clearly the straight wins the hand, right? Well the trips guy flips out and throughs a fit. His claim is that since the dealer had declared him the winner then it was his pot (there was around 50 bucks in the pot). Every single person at the table said give the pot to the straight guy, and he continued to through a fit. Even when the floor came over and agreed the straight guy gets the pot, trips argues that since the dealer made a mistake that the dealer should pay for it. He wanted to keep the pot and have the dealer match the pot out of his tray to give to the straight guy.

Well, I almost got up and left the table. I didn't want to play with a guy that would be such a jerk. Luckily for me and the other regular, this guy was so worked up over all this that he went on a tilt bing and rebought for about 500 bucks over the next hour, finally leaving busted.

By the way, I was talking to a dealer about Omaha one time. With so many cards there are often mini-debates about the best hand. She said at dealer school they train them to look at the board and decide what two cards are the nuts (hi and lo), then they can easily just check for those two after the showdown. This sounded like good advice and now before the showdown I mentally decide what two cards would beat me.

For instance: Board is QxT9x and I have J8. If no flush or pair on the board, he needs a J8 to split or KJ to win. Having decided this before the showdown, it's a quick check. I've also found this has improved my play since it lets me know exactly what cards he would need and I can then mentally review his play and estimate if he has them. (ie..did he raise UTG? J8 unlikely. Did I get a happy tell when the Q hit and put him on Qx, etcetera)

Moral of the story: One pot isn't going to matter much in the long game...if you're the trips guy be graceful and let it go, it's better for the game. And if there's a jerk on tilt at your table, just be patient and he'll pay you off.

Other moral of the story: Everyone makes mistakes, even dealers. Watch the cards.

Re: Intentional miscalling of hand at showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
...now before the showdown I mentally decide what two cards would beat me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm. Not sure how to respond to that statement. Were you not doing this before?