Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

I am applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund as a researcher/analyst and I'd really love to get it. The problem is, what do I put for work experience? I am 2 years out of college and have played poker professionally since my senior year.

Should I just say "Self-employed Professional Poker Player. June 2004 - Present" and mention it in the cover letter or should I elaborate on how it is relevant within the resume itself?

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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I am applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund as a researcher/analyst and I'd really love to get it. The problem is, what do I put for work experience? I am 2 years out of college and have played poker professionally since my senior year.

Should I just say "Self-employed Professional Poker Player. June 2004 - Present" and mention it in the cover letter or should I elaborate on how it is relevant within the resume itself?

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if the fund is notable and/or good & recognized then you are in serious trouble.

that is one of hte most sought after jobs and toughest to fill.

do you have solid grades from a top school? finance background?

Barron

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Glocap? I don't know if it's good or bad or what.

Nope, not solid grades. 3.0 in Math from Virginia Tech.

Basically I'm screwed?

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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Glocap? I don't know if it's good or bad or what.

Nope, not solid grades. 3.0 in Math from Virginia Tech.

Basically I'm screwed?

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glocap isn't a fund.

it is a recruiter/headhunting service for many institutions

Barron

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Oh, well then, I have no clue what I am applying for since it is through their site.

Here is the link

https://www.glocapsearch.com/jobs.js...;job_id=120661

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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Oh, well then, I have no clue what I am applying for since it is through their site.

Here is the link

https://www.glocapsearch.com/jobs.js...;job_id=120661

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you have a (long) shot here. looks like their just hiring new analysts to train them. comfort w/ #s is an odd requirement.

problem is they want TOP SCHOOL and STRONG GPA. those are usually non-negotiable requirements.

apply and sell yourself well and maybe you'll get an interview.

Barron

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

I'll try my best. Thoughts on what to say about poker?

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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I'll try my best. Thoughts on what to say about poker?

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just add it as an experience.

Year X-Year Y:

Professional Poker player
- studied probabilitistic basis for the game
- acquired skills in decision making under uncertainty

etc.

Barron

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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I'll try my best. Thoughts on what to say about poker?

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just add it as an experience.

Year X-Year Y:

Professional Poker player
- studied probabilitistic basis for the game
- acquired skills in decision making under uncertainty

etc.

Barron

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... risk management...

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

- indicate stakes and returns, if impressive

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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I'll try my best. Thoughts on what to say about poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

just add it as an experience.

Year X-Year Y:

Professional Poker player
- studied probabilitistic basis for the game
- acquired skills in decision making under uncertainty

etc.

Barron

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... risk management...

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-learning to improve through other people + integrating their strenghts while eliminating weaknesses
-performing under pressure
-long sessions / stamina / mental durability
-thinking about a subject 24/7
-self control / handling tilt
-handling / maximizing equity vs. opponents on tilt / psychological assessments
-constantly assessing and reevaluating your game, making adjustments
-uncanny dexterity / flexibility in risk taking / decisionmaking
-100% brutal honesty when analyzing personal performance

And probably many more. Emphasize that many of these cannot be learned at a top school, with a top gpa, or really in any other activity/job by early 20's (maybe entrepreneurship).

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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problem is they want TOP SCHOOL and STRONG GPA. those are usually non-negotiable requirements.


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Is it hard to get a nice entry-level job on Wall Street in general without these requirements? For example.... would it be hard to get these employers to consider you with top grades from a big state school?

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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problem is they want TOP SCHOOL and STRONG GPA. those are usually non-negotiable requirements.


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Is it hard to get a nice entry-level job on Wall Street in general without these requirements? For example.... would it be hard to get these employers to consider you with top grades from a big state school?

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Most of the big/top firms send recruiters to very limited schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Penn/Wharton, Stanford, Northwestern, Dartmouth, UChicago). If you're not at one of those schools you'll be without the networking and event series that the firms have to recruit. You will need to REALLY stand out on paper to get an interview.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

What about just a nice job in general? Not a Goldman Sachs etc... I think they're called "boutqiue firms" or something... are there enough "no-name" firms that someone from a state school can get a nice entry-level job, buy-side or sell-side, in NYC or a similar major city?

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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What about just a nice job in general? Not a Goldman Sachs etc... I think they're called "boutqiue firms" or something... are there enough "no-name" firms that someone from a state school can get a nice entry-level job, buy-side or sell-side, in NYC or a similar major city?

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it's really all about networking in general. thats the bottom line. if you can get a guy high up in any place to say to a friend "hey, check out this kid" then you'll be ok even if you dont have 4.0 from harvard.

3.0 from VT or whatever but the ability to interview well and really come accross confident, yet humble & deeply curious about the subject matter improves your chances. the main problem in general is GETTING to the interview.

they just have so many choices...why choose you??? thats where that network comes into play.

botique shops are your best bet w/o a top school/redic. strong network (or that stroke of luck that puts you in the right place at the right time)

Barron

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Mdouglass,

First ask yourself why you want to be a researcher/analyst(this is vague, but I'm assuming you are referring to equities) and why you want to work at a hedge fund(again, here i'm assuming you mean a long/short equity fund that makes its investment decisions mostly from fundamental analysis) . Be honest with yourself about this. Do you know what the job entails? Have you also looked at other jobs in finance(there are so many choices..)?

Anyway, imho you are going to have a very tough time finding a gig. The problem with most hedge funds is that they either a) do not recruit people lacking relevant experience or b) recruit kids straight out of u-grad(from top schools). Same applies for investment banks.

Entry-level research analyst positions at hedge funds are going to attract sell-side research analysts and investment bankers looking to make the jump to the buyside. A lot of these guys slave away(unhappily) for 2-4 years on the sell-side hoping to get a shot at PE, VC, or a hedge fund. Their skills can be put to immediate use.

Unfortunately, a lot of things are going against you. You are competing against guys who have previous research or banking experience, while you don't. You are a few years out of school and so you'll lose the advantages of new grad recruiting. You don't have a stellar GPA and you didn't go to a top ivy.

On the bright side, as others have mentioned, you will greatly improve your chances by networking. Getting your resume in front of a bank MD or fund manager isn't enough. And certainly, HR is going to screen you out(sorry, this is the reality). You need to network to the point of having someone help you actually land an interview. I think if you can secure an interview, then it provides you the opportunity to really wow a fund manager or hiring manager, etc.

Lastly, I suggest you consider careers in trading. You majored in math(I assume you must like it somewhat and be okay at it), you play poker. Traders care less about your pedigree(though HR will still screen out most candidates before the trader ever interviews you/reviews your resume) and more about your potential to make them or the firm money. The world of trading is huge. So many different financial products to trade, so many different functions of trading(market making, prop, sales trading/execution trading, execution algo development, automated systems trading, floor trading(this is dying though), etc). Given your background, I can say it will be a lot easier to land a trading gig(usually this means starting out as an assistant trader fetching coffee, printing out position and p&l reports, etc).

As an aside, we had a bloomberg analytics guy in our office today. Chatted a bit and he mentioned he used to be an MM on the PCX(before Arca bought em and before NYSE bought Arca, now I think PCX is just known as NYSE Arca Holdings or something lame). He worked for Cutler Group(I'd consider them a quality options MM up there with Susq), claims that his "interview" was playing texas hold'em. I know the guys at Susq are big into poker also, you might try them if you are interested. I think a few of them are on the forums.

Good luck.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Good post hapaboii..

mdouglass; I think you should look down the road a bit and see where you want to be. It might be that putting a lot of effort into trying to land a job in financial services isn't where you want to go. When I was coming out of undergrad I was in a similar spot as you; "OK gpa from a decent school" and thought being on Wall Street would be cool. After talking to people that actually had the job it was a lot less sexy. When starting out they work long hours for short pay in a thankless environment...

After griding away in the entry level you get to move up; this is where you should be looking. Is that really where you want to be when you're 30?

-Chry

PS: Ugrad from RIT, quarter life crisis at 26, just finishing MBA from Babson, still don't want to grow up

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

what the hell, i know somebody who got a job offer at farralon with basically no experience and no meaningful academic pedigree.

i also know somebody who (until a few weeks ago) was hiring for an undergrad research assistant/bitch. this person ended up hiring a liberal arts undergrad major (though one with strong SAT math), and some demonstrated desire to get in the business i.e., had taken and passed CFA1.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Great posts, thanks a lot guys. You all make some really great points. As I'm sure you are all well aware, I don't know much about this field and assumed that this entry-level job at this hedge fund was small potatoes, but apparently it's not.

Trading does seem like something that would fit me very well. I know several people at SIG (I assume that's the same as the Susq you mentioned hapaboii) and we are all former magic pros turned poker players etc. They went on to work as traders and love it. It seems like a good fit for my skill set.

I only recently started looking for jobs in the investing field and know very little about them. Really, I would be fine with just about any entry-level position that would let me learn the field with lots of room to grow. Being an assistant trader actually sounds perfect right now (It's what a friend at SIG suggested, too), but I'm having trouble actually finding job openings that fit that. Is it going to be hard to find an assistant trading job in the DC area? I keep searching sites for the word 'trader' and the only thing I ever get is Trader Joe's or some kind of senior executive positions. What else should I try searching?

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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Glocap? I don't know if it's good or bad or what.

Nope, not solid grades. 3.0 in Math from Virginia Tech.

Basically I'm screwed?

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Yes.

To break it down:

3.0: bad
Math: good
Virginia Tech: marginal
Not knowing what business Glocap is in: bad
Not having had a job since college: bad

PM me if you want more specific advice.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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I'll try my best. Thoughts on what to say about poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

just add it as an experience.

Year X-Year Y:

Professional Poker player
- studied probabilitistic basis for the game
- acquired skills in decision making under uncertainty

etc.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

... risk management...

[/ QUOTE ]

-learning to improve through other people + integrating their strenghts while eliminating weaknesses
-performing under pressure
-long sessions / stamina / mental durability
-thinking about a subject 24/7
-self control / handling tilt
-handling / maximizing equity vs. opponents on tilt / psychological assessments
-constantly assessing and reevaluating your game, making adjustments
-uncanny dexterity / flexibility in risk taking / decisionmaking
-100% brutal honesty when analyzing personal performance

And probably many more. Emphasize that many of these cannot be learned at a top school, with a top gpa, or really in any other activity/job by early 20's (maybe entrepreneurship).

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Most of those aren't particularly useful and could even be counterproductive for a research job.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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Is it going to be hard to find an assistant trading job in the DC area?

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Yes. Trading firms are almost exclusively in areas with markets for them to trade on. AFAIK, there's no market in DC, although I could be wrong.

I am interning at a trading firm on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange this fall, so if you have any questions just ask.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

I know that kids from Yale have to be incredible to get Hedge Fund jobs right out of school. I am talking like 3.8+ GPA and some great extacurricular like All-Ivy athlete, head of some big campus organization, etc. [censored], I am a 3.35 econ major and I am trying to build alumni contacts right now so I am sure to get interviews next fall. The big firms (Goldman, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Bros., etc.) have way to many 3.5 Ivy League white males applying to their jobs, so you have to stand out.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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I know that kids from Yale have to be incredible to get Hedge Fund jobs right out of school. I am talking like 3.8+ GPA and some great extacurricular like All-Ivy athlete, head of some big campus organization, etc. [censored], I am a 3.35 econ major and I am trying to build alumni contacts right now so I am sure to get interviews next fall. The big firms (Goldman, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Bros., etc.) have way to many 3.5 Ivy League white males applying to their jobs, so you have to stand out.

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OR you have to know people and interview exceptionally well.

getting that first interview is tough. i'd suggest not going through GLOCAP and instead reach out to every contact you could possibly know and do it that way.

i'm right now in the midst of my own job search and glocap has provided me with no interviews yet (there are 2 on the table though that look promising). my 2 other headhunters have also not provided an interview.

my personal contacts, however, have put me in touch with 2 wall street legends and the president & ceo of a equity trading & macro research firm 2.5 miles from where i live as well as the managing director of a branch of Cerberus (my top two choices though would be the firm 2.5 miles from me or the one via glocap. the wall street guys could simply provide more and more contacts though so you never know)

you have to go through personal contacts (which is how i got the job at the top hedge fund i worked at previously)

Barron

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Getting that interview at all seems tough (maybe impossible) considering I am in DC. If I don't want to move (right now) what kind of investing jobs should I be looking into? I'd like to get something going so that in the future I can look better on paper and possibly get one of these assistant trader jobs.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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Glocap? I don't know if it's good or bad or what.

Nope, not solid grades. 3.0 in Math from Virginia Tech.

Basically I'm screwed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

To break it down:

3.0: bad
Math: good
Virginia Tech: marginal
Not knowing what business Glocap is in: bad
Not having had a job since college: bad

PM me if you want more specific advice.

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"real" job.

I'm sure my poker experience is infinitely better than most other candidates who worked some worthless out-of-college job, the trouble is conveying that to them. Maybe it is futile since HR will automatically shoot it down when they see it.

Now I know what Glocap is. Good.

My 3.0 is embarrassing, however. The worst part is that in college I never even tried at all. When I didn't like a class I put the least amount of effort into it possible just to get a B or a C. Most of my senior-level math classes were like that. When I really liked a class I worked hard at it and tried to get an A. Obviously I wish I could do it all over again. I would have switched to Finance, most likely. Nothing I can do now about it :/

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

Re: Trading

I suspect you'll find the most trading job opportunities(within the U.S.) in Chicago and New York. But as I said in my previous post, the world of trading is huge.

Traders can find employment on both the buy and sellside in many different types of financial institutions doing many different things. You are in a situation where you can't really be picky, but I suggest you read up on the different roles of traders to decide what you might like best.

Getting a job in trading can be difficult though... to make this brief, I think you should take advantage of your contacts at SIG(as I called Susq). Check out their website, learn a bit about the company and what their primary business is. I am under the impression they are always looking for new talent in Chicago, NY, Philly area, maybe SF?. At the time I was entry-level job hunting a few years back, I think they paid 40k/yr to ass't traders. If this fails, keep building and trying to use your contacts. For the most part, applying online through sites like monster or company sites is going to be useless. HR is going to screen out your resume(there's an off-chance the trader himself is the hiring manager and might give you an interview). Lastly, be careful about arcades and bucket shops - these firms will offer you a chance to trade if you make a capital contribution and pay a desk fee. They aren't bad for everyone(profitable daytraders can negotiate 100% payouts, low commish rates, and benefit from the leverage provided by company funds), but not a place to learn.

Re: Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund
 

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Glocap? I don't know if it's good or bad or what.

Nope, not solid grades. 3.0 in Math from Virginia Tech.

Basically I'm screwed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

To break it down:

3.0: bad
Math: good
Virginia Tech: marginal
Not knowing what business Glocap is in: bad
Not having had a job since college: bad

PM me if you want more specific advice.

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"real" job.

I'm sure my poker experience is infinitely better than most other candidates who worked some worthless out-of-college job, the trouble is conveying that to them. Maybe it is futile since HR will automatically shoot it down when they see it.


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Well I'm sure, your poker experience was infinitely better and enriching and all that for you but the trouble is convincing companies how that would help them. They want someone reliable who would do crap work for them and you track record suggests that either you lack the aptitude or motivation (relative to your competition, of course).