Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Hey guys.

In the coming few years, I may marry with my girlfriend. She is really nice. One thing I am thinking of is, say, after we are married, one of us has an affair. At this point, it looks extremely unlikely, but after reading some threads elsewhere I thought that I should better plan out my flowchart.

How damaging is it for someone to have an affair? Does this change if there are children? Is it automatically divorce if that happens? What would be any mitigating circumstances?

I am thinking of saying that we each get one chance, and after that it's instant split. Is this good? Will the marriage survive if an affair is had and discovered? Would it be better to have no chances instead?

I know that wanting to have an affair is a very human thing, and is natural. We have to resist the temptation, but it can be hard for some people. Any advice?

I am sure that I can bring this up with her without causing problems, our relationship is good.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

you probably should never bring this up. It will be a weird conversation with no real point. You can never really know how you are going to react to infidelity until it comes up. Personally, I like to think that I might be able to forgive some mythical future wife, but who really knows. It is a broken trust, and sometimes that can neer be repaired.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

DONT bring this up with your gf. Your supposed to be in love, not making a deal. Saying that you each get one chance is like saying that you will only do it once.

If you are serious about marriage, you shouldn't want to have an affair. If it happens it happens, and deal with it if it does at the time.

If your future wife did have an affair, and you found out and she came and said 'well we did say we could have 1 right?'...how messed up would that be? 'oh ok honey, that's cool'.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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DONT bring this up with your gf.

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Yep. [censored] now, think later.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

This is just plain retarded. Stop talking about this immediately. You say that an affair is "extremely unlikely." Are you sure? If so, get married and live your life. If it is more likely than you say, then you need to seriously reevaluate getting married.

I'm sure there are marriages that have survived an affair. Best not to find out if yours is one of them.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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I am sure that I can bring this up with her without causing problems

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Picture yourself in the last panel of a Konrad.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Being able to forgive your wife after the fact is very different from making a deal for one freebie now.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Follow these rules:

a.) never have an affair.
b.) if tempted to have an affair, slit your throat first.

if your spouse cheats, and you keep her, fine.
if your spouse cheats, and you divorce her, fine.
it's up to you.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Don't get married.
I'm completely serious.
Don't get married.


If you are thinking about this now, you aren't ready to commit to one woman for the rest of your life. You just aren't. You want the benefits of being in a loving, stable relationship while still being able to get some strange every now and then. It doesn't work that way.


The only reason you'd possibly bring this up to your girlfriend is if you are already angling for forgiveness years in advance or you are subconsciously trying to wreck the engagement now (probably both). Best to cool it on the marriage front until you're able to commit with the knowledge that you will actively fight off the temptation when it comes rather than trying to arrange an excuse to give in to it.

edit: I know this comes off as pretty harsh, but it needed to be. If you're not ready to settle down (with all that entails), you're just setting yourselves up for a lot of pain. If you are thinking anything other than "[censored] no, I'd never cheat on her", you're pretty much doomed.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Haha, I can just imagine this conversation.

"So honey, before we get married we each get one 'get out of infidelity free card', right?"

"...."

To be honest this is totally idiosyncratic and you'll never know whether you can forgive her until it happens.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

the whole point of marriage is having children, otherwise why even call it marriage, just call if bf/gf.

by getting divorced, you risk screwing up your kids. once you have kids, i think you have to do whatever is best for them, not yourself.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Did you just watch the episode of Friends where Ross and Rachel each have a list of 5 celebs they can nail?

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

if you're worried about this, then you shouldn't get married.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
the whole point of marriage is having children, otherwise why even call it marriage, just call if bf/gf.

by getting divorced, you risk screwing up your kids. once you have kids, i think you have to do whatever is best for them, not yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying that people who can't or don't want to have kids shouldn't get married? IMO, it should be more than about kids. It's a lifelong commitment to one person. If you can't handle that commitment, then don't get married.


Also, having miserable parents who are cheating on each other and always fight is gonna be hella bad for the kids. Better to split up than stay together and continue tormenting one another.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Just try to get her into an open relationship if you are thinking this way. The 'one freebie' (if she actually agrees and doesn't just kick you in the balls when you bring it up) will hang over the marriage like a dark cloud. I've known a few people in open relationships and the obvious complications often come up.

As for forgiveness, that depends a lot on the context. Generally, if the girl wants to have sex with other guys it is because she feels (fairly or unfairly) neglected. If the guy wants to have sex with other women it is oftentimes because he is a guy. I think the marriage is more likely to be structurally unsound in the former case than the latter. Please, if you do get married and if you have kids and if you do at some point cheat for really base reasons (e.g., she was hot I was drunk), just let it go and do not confess the infidelity to your lovely.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

How can you possibly have a general rule about what will happen to your marriage if you cheat. If you get drunk and screw a random person on a business trip, she'll be pissed for a year but maybe you'll be able to work it out. If you carry on with her best friend for a year behind her back, you are surely headed for a divorce.

Either way, it is definitely not worth it to screw around.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Personally, with no kids involved, I would get a divorce for sure. Life is WAY too short and precious to spend it being married to someone who you will never fully trust again (at least I know I wouldn't). Kids complicate things. A lot of people say that you have to stay together for the kids. But, I think that your parents and the dynamics in their relationship HUGELY influence kids and the their behavior in relationships when they become adults. In many cases, I believe that staying together does more harm than good. I don't deny that a divorce will obviously have bad effects on the kids, but overall, seeing your parents happy and apart is better for development in the longrun than seeing them miserable and together.

I'm unmarried and childless and reserve the right to change my opinion when the time comes!

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

My wife said if she ever caught me cheating she's take everything and cut my we we off lol [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] my wife though [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Thanks guys. I am actually more worried not about her being deliberately unfaithful, but as a thing where she was manipulated by another guy. She is very trusting and might make some unwise decisions if such a guy came along. I have no plans to have an affair and I don't think I will do such a thing.

I'll not bring it up, and if it really does happen, I'll deal with it then. I think it's a less than 5% chance it'll come up, anyway.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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I think it's a less than 5% chance it'll come up, anyway.

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Statistically, 25% of men admit to cheating and 11% of women admit to cheating. When you break out the data by income, high income males cheat more than 50% of the time. I'd say there is a greater than 5% chance this comes up.

"According to the 2004 data, one of the new reasons are family strains, which account for 18 per cent of the divorce. Emotional and physical abuse account for 17 per cent of the divorces. Similarly, mid-life crisis accounts for 13 per cent of the divorces. Addictions to alcoholism and gambling accounts for 6 per cent of the divorce. Addiction to work accounts for 6 per cent of the divorce. Extramarital affairs continues to top the list. It accounts for 27 per cent of marriages ending in divorce.

While 75 per cent of men are found to be involved in extramarital affairs, 25 per cent of women have relationship with men outside the purview of marriage. The 2004 survey also established that women seeking divorce was to the extent of 93 per cent in divorce cases and only a small segment of men questioned them."

Oh, and watch your woman closely when she is fertile

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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While 75 per cent of men are found to be involved in extramarital affairs, 25 per cent of women have relationship with men outside the purview of marriage.

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Bull. There is no way that number is true. It's written as if 3 out of 4 men who are married cheat. No way.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
While 75 per cent of men are found to be involved in extramarital affairs, 25 per cent of women have relationship with men outside the purview of marriage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull. There is no way that number is true. It's written as if 3 out of 4 men who are married cheat. No way.

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Ya, I know. I didn't intend to include those middle two paragraphs. I copied and pasted from a website that I later deemed unreliable. I thought I had deleted that info from my post but apparently not. Please disregard. The 1st and 4th paragraphs are fine.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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How damaging is it for someone to have an affair? Does this change if there are children? Is it automatically divorce if that happens? What would be any mitigating circumstances?


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Auto-divorce for me. There isn't a big enough boot to fit on my foot that puts her out to the curb.

If you're both healthy and know each other are alive, there aren't any mitigating circumstances.

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I am thinking of saying that we each get one chance, and after that it's instant split. Is this good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear that's always a great foundation to build on.

She'll probably wonder who you have in mind.

[ QUOTE ]
I know that wanting to have an affair is a very human thing, and is natural. We have to resist the temptation, but it can be hard for some people. Any advice?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's human to desire it. It's immature to act on it. If someone can't handle that, they shouldn't be getting married.

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I am sure that I can bring this up with her without causing problems, our relationship is good.

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I'd love to hear the follow-up on this conversation.

At least you have a 'few years' to get your head on str8 and understand what being married and making a committment to someone really means.

There's a reason 60+% marriages fail.

b

b

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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While 75 per cent of men are found to be involved in extramarital affairs, 25 per cent of women have relationship with men outside the purview of marriage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull. There is no way that number is true. It's written as if 3 out of 4 men who are married cheat. No way.

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Ya, I know. I didn't intend to include those middle two paragraphs. I copied and pasted from a website that I later deemed unreliable. I thought I had deleted that info from my post but apparently not. Please disregard. The 1st and 4th paragraphs are fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm.. It's all from the same website right? If the middle part is so incredibly wrong I, for one, certainly do not believe the rest of what is written either.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

i might be able to deal w/it once, but twice or more is out of the question.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

Ugh. I know these things happen frequently nowadays (affairs that is) but I think one should go into a marriage without every worrying about this. You shouldn't marry someone who you think would be capable of this. The fact that you'd like to clear up consequences and whatnot already means either you don't trust her completely, or you don't trust yourself. Either one means you're probably not ready to get married.

Also, I don't think I could stay married to someone who betrayed me like that. I could get past a drunken makeout if she showed real regret and it was clear to me that she meant it, but anything beyond that would break my heart.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys.

In the coming few years, I may marry with my girlfriend. She is really nice. One thing I am thinking of is, say, after we are married, one of us has an affair. At this point, it looks extremely unlikely, but after reading some threads elsewhere I thought that I should better plan out my flowchart.

How damaging is it for someone to have an affair? Does this change if there are children? Is it automatically divorce if that happens? What would be any mitigating circumstances?

I am thinking of saying that we each get one chance, and after that it's instant split. Is this good? Will the marriage survive if an affair is had and discovered? Would it be better to have no chances instead?

I know that wanting to have an affair is a very human thing, and is natural. We have to resist the temptation, but it can be hard for some people. Any advice?

I am sure that I can bring this up with her without causing problems, our relationship is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will pre-empt with: I did not read your post.

Marriage is ridiculous.

We are such stupid beings. We live for such a short amount of time and think we are so totlaly awesome that we can create a bond with someone that will last forever.

Wake up you idiots.

Your bond is crap.

Your bond is good for however long it's good for and that's it.

If there is a God he is a car saleman being like "oh, you get a totally sweet warranty on your marriage."

But you know what, that warranty lasts like 2 days. Then it's over and you're like...this marriage sucks.

Be happy for however long you're happy for, then when you're no longer happy move on.

That's my advice and it's the best damn advice you're getting.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

OP,

You better get an airtight prenup. Make sure all the lawyers are present.

I have a feeling you might need it.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

to the OP

Its all different for everyone how they react to infidelity. Women seem to take it a bit better than men (just in general) as I said, all people are different. I used to think that being a good husband was easy.... just dont cheat... (got divorced from her, but still never cheated)

Now I have been married again... going on 8 years, with 2 kids, and though I KNOW my wife would never cheat, I really think at this point, we could get thru it if she did. If i did the cheating, I also think we could get thru it.

So I guess the bottom line is... you may or may not make it thru,.... no I dont think a one time pass is a good idea, but as the relationship grows, things change, and people change, and opinions and attitudes change, so there is no correct answer we can give you. Some couples have open relationships and are very happy, some are 101% dedicated, yet they detest each other. Which is better? That depends on you and her.

pokerbobo has spoken

One more thing to add.... the more time you have invested in the relationship, the likelier infidelity will be forgiven. It is easy to dump a 2-3 year boy/girlfriend.... put 8-12 or 20-25 years in, and it becomes a different situation.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

I disagree with several posters who say that my thinking about this possibility is a bad sign for marriage success. I think it would be more likely to succeed, because marriages that are based only on passion find it difficult to surmount obstacles later - keeping a level head may not be the best thing in terms of "I love you for ever and ever baby [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]" but probably it's better in the long term. People who dismiss or ignore difficulties are less prepared to deal with them.

Agree or disagree?

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with several posters who say that my thinking about this possibility is a bad sign for marriage success. I think it would be more likely to succeed, because marriages that are based only on passion find it difficult to surmount obstacles later - keeping a level head may not be the best thing in terms of "I love you for ever and ever baby [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]" but probably it's better in the long term. People who dismiss or ignore difficulties are less prepared to deal with them.

Agree or disagree?

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Disagree, only because cheating is a total betrayal of everything the marriage is supposed to stand for. Of course there are going to be fights and rocky times, but planning for the possibility of an affair seems ridiculous to me. The posters who have said that you have no idea how you will react are probably right. It's fine to plan for what things you want to do to keep your marriage fresh, how to read trouble signs in the marriage, and so on to AVOID affairs, but emotion plays such a huge role in how you will react that trying to come up with a rational plan in advance seems a little pointless.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with several posters who say that my thinking about this possibility is a bad sign for marriage success. I think it would be more likely to succeed, because marriages that are based only on passion find it difficult to surmount obstacles later - keeping a level head may not be the best thing in terms of "I love you for ever and ever baby [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]" but probably it's better in the long term. People who dismiss or ignore difficulties are less prepared to deal with them.

Agree or disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

Love has more to do with self sacrifice than selfishness. If you love your wife, why would you do anything to hurt her and vice versa? Stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about the love of your life.

It was a big shift to get married because I was no longer #1. And now that I have kids, I am not even in the top three. Life has never been better.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with several posters who say that my thinking about this possibility is a bad sign for marriage success. I think it would be more likely to succeed, because marriages that are based only on passion find it difficult to surmount obstacles later - keeping a level head may not be the best thing in terms of "I love you for ever and ever baby [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]" but probably it's better in the long term. People who dismiss or ignore difficulties are less prepared to deal with them.

Agree or disagree?

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OP,

Realize that most posters in this thread are employing the 'traditional mode of thinking' and thus are at an inherently different level of thought from you. While you may or may not be off base with your specific current ideas, don't allow those on a lower level influence you through their sheer volume.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Realize that most posters in this thread are employing the 'traditional mode of thinking' and thus are at an inherently different level of thought from you

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling that I'm getting horribly leveled here. Seriously.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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While 75 per cent of men are found to be involved in extramarital affairs, 25 per cent of women have relationship with men outside the purview of marriage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull. There is no way that number is true. It's written as if 3 out of 4 men who are married cheat. No way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, I know. I didn't intend to include those middle two paragraphs. I copied and pasted from a website that I later deemed unreliable. I thought I had deleted that info from my post but apparently not. Please disregard. The 1st and 4th paragraphs are fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm.. It's all from the same website right? If the middle part is so incredibly wrong I, for one, certainly do not believe the rest of what is written either.

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No, I did a search for marriage statistics and orginally got the information that I later said was incorrect. However, the other information (from the ABS website, the same site that you get when you click my 'fertility' link) is from a subsequent search -- different website -- and is very likely correct. It would indeed be silly for me to reject some of a websites statistics out of hand but include other stats from the same site.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Realize that most posters in this thread are employing the 'traditional mode of thinking' and thus are at an inherently different level of thought from you

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling that I'm getting horribly leveled here. Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Replace "traditional" with "American" and maybe he's closer... I read a book review in The Economist about the history of infidelity, and the current climate globally of acceptance etc. In broadstrokes, it seems that the U.S. are the most uptight and suffer the most emotional devastation. Other 1st world Western countries (e.g. France) tend to look at affairs more practically wrt keeping the marriage going. I'm a traditional American, so whatever, and my take on it is similar to 7ontheline's... but it's interesting anyway. Below is something I posted in some other EDF thread:

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Thread reminded me of a book review of "Lust in Translation: The Rules of Infidelity from Tokyo to Tennessee" (examination of infidelity around the globe, exploring differences in attitudes towards adultery, and frequency) I read a couple months ago: here is a reprint of the article.

[ QUOTE ]
Her conclusion: people in rich countries value monogamy and tend not to stray often. In America, however, “adultery crises last longer, cost more, and seem to inflict more emotional torture.” Americans are so guilt-ridden, she writes, that they don't even enjoy what should be the pleasurable bit. Better, she reckons, to take a lesson from the French, who believe that monogamy is optimal, enjoy the lapses when they happen but try not to escalate them, and never, ever, confront a spouse for cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

-Al

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Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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the whole point of marriage is having children, otherwise why even call it marriage, just call if bf/gf.

by getting divorced, you risk screwing up your kids. once you have kids, i think you have to do whatever is best for them, not yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like someone got assimilated by the Asian culture [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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I am actually more worried not about her being deliberately unfaithful, but as a thing where she was manipulated by another guy. She is very trusting and might make some unwise decisions if such a guy came along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You sure do have a ton of respect for your future wife. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

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Wow. You sure do have a ton of respect for your future wife. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like olives, but I'll eat a pizza with a few bits of olive in it if it's baked well and the other ingredients are good.

Thanks everyone for the different points of view. A lot of food for thought for me.

Re: Marriage: One unfaithfulness exception, or none?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks guys. I am actually more worried not about her being deliberately unfaithful, but as a thing where she was manipulated by another guy. She is very trusting and might make some unwise decisions if such a guy came along. I have no plans to have an affair and I don't think I will do such a thing.

I'll not bring it up, and if it really does happen, I'll deal with it then. I think it's a less than 5% chance it'll come up, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trusting is one thing. Dumb is another. And altogether different from both is a strong sense of identity. If she knows who she is and what she wants, she will not be manipulated into doing anything she doesn't want to do.

I may very well be wrong, but I think the capacity for self-deception is the strongest predictor of infidelity.