Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Recieved my first email from Neteller on the 18th of January..This is the second email which I recieved the 24th..Haven't heard from them since..Should I expect a letter from a collection agency soon?

The balance is outstanding in the amount of $750.00 because I used the instacash deposit method..Obviously didn't have the funds in my bank account (Yes, I know I'm a true degen haha)


Dear ******* ******,

Your NETELLER account remains outstanding in the amount of $750.00 USD. Failure to resolve this issue may result in a loss of NETELLER account privileges. This is our second request for repayment.

Please contact Cindy Miller immediately to arrange repayment. The following repayment options are available.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Neteller is in a legal limbo.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Of course you have a legal obligation to pay- same as any other debt. And yes, they'll probably turn it over to a collection agency.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

The reason why I have a feeling I won't recieve a letter in the mail from a collection agency is because I have a friend who did something similiar with party poker only with their IGM-pay Instant check system and they threatened him to pay them back (it was around $1000) and he hasn't heard from them in months. I guess only time will tell.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

In the meantime, their money is safe with you....


[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


T

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Answer: no

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

You would be insane and a fool to pay them. Screw em. Why would you pay a company that is ripping players off daily for the interest on the player's money they hold illegally?

I would tell them to contact you at your support number. Make them wait for hours then keep disconnecting on them. Finally, let them get a hold of you and tell them they haven't been paid yet because of the unexpected volume you are dealing with and that you can't give them an expected date at the moment. Assure them there money is safe with you and that you hold in a segregated account.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would tell them to contact you at your support number. Make them wait for hours then keep disconnecting on them. Finally, let them get a hold of you and tell them they haven't been paid yet because of the unexpected volume you are dealing with and that you can't give them an expected date at the moment. Assure them there money is safe with you and that you hold in a segregated account.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

No, my brother owed them like 800 they call him from time to time demanding he pay but he just says no and hangs up. Its been about 2 years and I think they are finally giving up.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Of course you have a legal obligation to pay- same as any other debt. And yes, they'll probably turn it over to a collection agency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

It seems the US gov't holds that Neteller is engaging in illegal activity by "aiding and abetting" gambling. I'm almost 100% certain illegal debts are NOT enforcable. You may or may not feel repayment is the "right" thing to do, but as to "legally required," the answer is you're not EDIT: potentially influenced by the pending criminal court case.

Think of it this way: you may want to pay the crack man because he'll have your kneecaps broken if you don't, but he has no legal standing in a US court. (And obviously Neteller doesn't break kneecaps.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If it is indeed an illegal debt, can his credit rating even be affected?

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

this post made my day.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

anyone wondering why neteller stopped dealing with US gamblers need only read this thread

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Of course if you don't pay don't expect to use neteller ever again. And it could also affect on other internet gambling options.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

You morally have to pay them back.
Stealing is stealing. period.
But hey, that's on you. You can convince yourself with all the justifications in the world, you can call it a bunch of other things to cloud it with smoke and mirrors, but at the end of the day, if you don't pay them back, you're stealing.
I know that doesn't bother some people, but it would bother me.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

This is why netteller and most poker sites are pulling out of the U.S....thanks

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Okay, I am not a Neteller user. I only used direct bank wire transfers while playing online. But I can tell you this, Neteller and most poker sites did not pull out because of players not paying their debts. This has been happening all along from players all around the world. It is a part of their business. They expect a certain pertentage to default. It's just the law of averages. But let's be completely clear, these companies pulled out of our US market because of their need to protect and insulate their stock holders.....Period!!! They could give two cents about our laws. If they could keep their companies in good standings stock wise, continue business as usuall and be assured that they kept the players at the table, you can believe they would still be running. And as an affect, we would have nothing to bitch about.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Exactly. These people claiming that this is why they pulled out of the US are taking an opportunity to take a cheap shot. As if people in the US are morally deficient compared to the rest of the world. Bull. There are scumbags everywhere. There is good and bad everywhere. Certainly no more in the US than anywhere else.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is why netteller and most poker sites are pulling out of the U.S....thanks

[/ QUOTE ]
An extremely stupid post from someone who's been around as long as you, and is pushing a 1k post count. Bad day?

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

These posts have been going on for years. I have never heard of anyone actually getting sued or facing any real legal ramifications.

I guess it's a personal question of whether the moral or money issue is more +EV to you. For $750 I'd surely pay the bastards. If you have to work out a $50/month payment plan, they'd likely deny this possibility at first but eventually settle for it if you are stubborn in saying it's the only way that you can afford it.

However, if I owed something 3k+ I'd probably stiff 'em because at that point the money is more +EV to me than a moral obligation to an online gambling e-wallet which has no legal recourse.

There's no debtors prison for christ sakes. You are NOT going to get sued over $750 in civil court. To do that they'd have to sell the debt to a collection agency in YOUR state. And even then they would not attempt to pursue collection in court. Even if they did, their chances are slim.

Meh, nevermind...I wouldn't even pay the $750. If you feel the need to sort this out morally, donate the $750 to Gambler's Anonymous or that charity that gives families cows or whatever.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

just tell em to transfer some of my money to cover your 750... ha ha

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course you have a legal obligation to pay- same as any other debt. And yes, they'll probably turn it over to a collection agency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

It seems the US gov't holds that Neteller is engaging in illegal activity by "aiding and abetting" gambling. I'm almost 100% certain illegal debts are NOT enforcable. You may or may not feel repayment is the "right" thing to do, but as to "legally required," the answer is you're not EDIT: potentially influenced by the pending criminal court case.

Think of it this way: you may want to pay the crack man because he'll have your kneecaps broken if you don't, but he has no legal standing in a US court. (And obviously Neteller doesn't break kneecaps.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If it is indeed an illegal debt, can his credit rating even be affected?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you are correct. If what neteller was doing is found to be illegal then you do not have to pay them back. You can refute the charge when and if they send it to a collection agency on the grounds that it was an illegal operation.
KEYWORD here though is found. It is still in limbo whether or not neteller will be legally stated as an illegal operation or whether some deal will be worked and fines are to be payed and notactually "deemed" an illegal operation. (part of the reason I think neteller is cooperating so well)

Similar to how US companies fessed up so quickly post-Enron on accounting matters and did not face charges but mearly resignations and some fines.

Moral of the story is don't pay and wait. You might get some knocks on your credit rating in the mean time if they do pass it on to a collection agency.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

its a sad state of affairs when people think stealing is acceptable and the only thing that stops them is the threat of the law.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course you have a legal obligation to pay- same as any other debt. And yes, they'll probably turn it over to a collection agency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

It seems the US gov't holds that Neteller is engaging in illegal activity by "aiding and abetting" gambling. I'm almost 100% certain illegal debts are NOT enforcable. You may or may not feel repayment is the "right" thing to do, but as to "legally required," the answer is you're not EDIT: potentially influenced by the pending criminal court case.

Think of it this way: you may want to pay the crack man because he'll have your kneecaps broken if you don't, but he has no legal standing in a US court. (And obviously Neteller doesn't break kneecaps.)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. If it is indeed an illegal debt, can his credit rating even be affected?

[/ QUOTE ]

A contract is simply an agreement between two parties. Any illegal act voids a contract. Because of this his credit rating can not be effected. They might turn him into collection but all he needs to do is contact the three credit bureaus and dispute it.

They can always sue him for it. You can sue someone for anything but a judge would immediately throw it out. The nicest part for the OP is that US Government has already made his case that the contract was based on an illegal act and therefore void. Rarely do people get so lucky.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

i guess if people can convince others to be suicide bombers, blowing up men women & children, and convince them they are doing gods work then convincing someone that stealing money from neteller isnt actually stealing is a piece of cake in comparison

lets hope that neteller dont take the same view or no american will ever see their money again.

Re: Do I legally have to pay Neteller back?
 

Yes, let's equate stealing to suicide bombing. That is a wonderful display of intelligence and I hope you win an award for your level headed thinking.

In fact I hear by award you 8 Brownie points... eight!