Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

So this spot came up recently and I really wasn't sure what to do. Say its a standard 9-handed sng, 3 people left, blinds are 200/400, stacks are:
You (2000 chips)
SB (400 chips)
BB (11000 chips)

You're on the button and pick up AT. Shove or fold? I folded, basically giving up on trying to win and just hoping to finish in 2nd. Seems like taking down the blinds or even doubling up doesn't really do that much for me, while getting called and going out in 3rd would be annoying. Thoughts?

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

i fold. no sense in risking it when you have an almost guaranteed second place

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

Action limp!

EDIT: Limp in an attempt to make SB beat two hands to win.

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

nonononononono

never ever ever ever limp on the button and call yourself a decent poker player ever again

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nonononononono

never ever ever ever limp on the button and call yourself a decent poker player ever again

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, limping the button is terrible. Microstacks at the table kind of screw with the "standard" thinking.

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

i dont understand

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

i like limping here too - shoving is really a bad idea which such a small stack & with two hands, sb's chances of stayin' in this one dramatically decrease..
at the stakes i play, sb calls then, bigstacks shoves, i fold, bigstack shows 22 and gets a kick in his ass by sb's random coinflippin' hand.

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

so then whats the point? just fold and save the blind, or raise and get some money in the pot

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

I'm with slim on this one. Although shoving if certainly +EV, I think limping is more +EV.

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

on the assumption that SB puts all his money in here anyway

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

very easy shove against somewhat good players. if they are both bad i guess limping is okay but id never do it

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

i also think most people in this thread are overvaluing knocking out 3rd and undervaluing picking up 600 chips

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

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i also think most people in this thread are overvaluing knocking out 3rd and undervaluing picking up 600 chips

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There is so little value in the 600 chips here that winning the hand there shouldn't be a goal. Limping 200 to see a flop or see SB shove his remaining 400 in is worth the 10% or your stack.

If BB shoves, so be it. You don't have to call, and shorty is already AI (or should be).

Getting H/U on this hand is your goal, not winning chips.

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

easiest limp ever.....

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

I limp here too and hope it gets checked down where I have the winner.

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
i also think most people in this thread are overvaluing knocking out 3rd and undervaluing picking up 600 chips

[/ QUOTE ]

There is so little value in the 600 chips here that winning the hand there shouldn't be a goal. Limping 200 to see a flop or see SB shove his remaining 400 in is worth the 10% or your stack.

If BB shoves, so be it. You don't have to call, and shorty is already AI (or should be).

Getting H/U on this hand is your goal, not winning chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

using sngwiz, and with SB calling 100% i cant get this to be worse than a +.75% edge no matter what BB calls with. with SB on 74% and BB call1% at 28% i cant get it worse than +.82% no matter what call2% is.

so yea its a matter of if limping is better than pushing. but i dont think you can pass up an edge of almost 1%, especially since this isnt sngpt and overcalls are already factored in. unless im using sngwiz wrong it looks like a push

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i also think most people in this thread are overvaluing knocking out 3rd and undervaluing picking up 600 chips

[/ QUOTE ]

There is so little value in the 600 chips here that winning the hand there shouldn't be a goal. Limping 200 to see a flop or see SB shove his remaining 400 in is worth the 10% or your stack.

If BB shoves, so be it. You don't have to call, and shorty is already AI (or should be).

Getting H/U on this hand is your goal, not winning chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

using sngwiz, and with SB calling 100% i cant get this to be worse than a +.75% edge no matter what BB calls with. with SB on 74% and BB call1% at 28% i cant get it worse than +.82% no matter what call2% is.

so yea its a matter of if limping is better than pushing. but i dont think you can pass up an edge of almost 1%, especially since this isnt sngpt and overcalls are already factored in. unless im using sngwiz wrong it looks like a push

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wherever I set on sngwiz , it tells me fold.
What numbers are you setting?

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

uh.. the numbers i said i set...


like SB call1% on 75%, BB call1% on 30% and call2% on 25% gives you a +.8% push, right?

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

I didnt set chip equity mode.
SB 100%
BB 100%

Is a push , I think Im doing something wrong. It has not sense

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt set chip equity mode.
SB 100%
BB 100%

Is a push , I think Im doing something wrong. It has not sense

[/ QUOTE ]

you shouldnt be in chip equity mode i dont think. i dont know how to change the stuff im just in the default. which is $EV not cEV im assuming

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

without chip equity mode , I get fold in all cases .
I think Im doing the mistake , I will find why and PM you , I dont want to bother the thread

Re: Play for 2nd or play to win?
 

My problem with limping is that if the BB is smart, he'll just move all-in over the top with any 2 cards, knowing that I have to fold. Say I limp, the sb completes, putting all his chips in, and the BB shoves forcing me to fold. Now if the SB happens to win, he triples up to 1200, I'm down to 1600 and in the BB next hand. This seems like a complete disaster to me.