Never coldcall (theorish)
 

Posted in SSMTT, and are very intresting what you high stakes player thinks.

I am not mainly of a tournament player but I think I have a pretty good understanding of the concepts and poker in general. I have tried a little rule for myself the recent tournaments I have played that feels pretty good for many reasons.

That is to never under any circumstances coldcall a raise, not in position and not from the blinds, period.

What do you think about this rule, is it a good one or do you lose much by doing this? Of course its style depending but I think it might be a good rule for many players.

The main reason I try it is because many of the tournament I have played lately I had bust out by getting into awkward spots after calling a raise with a hand like 66 or QJs.

I can see that whatever your playing style is coldcalling the very first levels with small PPs is a good thing, maybe a rule like this can be limited for when stacks are becoming ~50bb or less.

Someone else that have tried something like this or have extremely little coldcalling in your tournament game and if you do whats the exceptions in general?

This applies to Texas NL MTTs.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

Meh. Often it is optimal to cold call a raise late in a tourney. For example, say a tight player opens in EP, and you hold QQ. If you reraise, he's probably going to play perfectly, meaning he'll fold every worst hand but never any better hands.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

It's obviously a terrible rule. I don't know why you should need an explanation, especially given that you are a long time cash game player, who obviously understands why you should sometimes just call and not raise.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

Early in a tournament, 200BB, UTG raises, you're on the button w/55.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]
The main reason I try it is because many of the tournament I have played lately I had bust out by getting into awkward spots after calling a raise with a hand like 66 or QJs.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is more likely due to mediocre postflop play than making a preflop mistake.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

I think this advice would have been somewhat more pertinent two years ago.

Now that c-betting is less effective, three-bets get called lighter and blind-stealing more difficult, you have to run really hot to profit by only raising or folding pre-flop.

On the whole, the level of pre-flop play has improved a lot in the fish tank over the last year or so. But they still suck post-flop, so play post-flop more.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

I responded to this in SSMTT. Obviously, it is not getting as warm a reception here. Some people flat call (my understanding is cold calling means calling when you don't already have money in the pot) too much. In live tournaments, you will often see a raise a bunch of flat callers or a bunch of limpers. In either case, it is tempting to come over top of them. So I see nothing wrong with always coming into the pot with a raise as an excercize to get out of the habbit of flat calling too much.

Generally, you want to flat call from the CO or button with position or from the BB with pot odds. You also want to flat call more with pps or suited connectors.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

Maybe this is a good strategy if you think you are a losing player against the table or slightly +EV.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is a good strategy if you think you are a losing player against the table or slightly +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't play well postflop, then better to always reraise or fold and simplify things.

Jesus says in the Full Tilt Guide that he won the WSOP ME never flat calling and never limping, including never limping behind. It fits his style, which is very strong with strategy and odds. In the final hand, he reraised TJ with A9o, called a push, and spiked a 9 on the river to beat AQ.

In the same book, Gavin Smith said he never reraises preflop. This fits Gavin's style, since he is always flat calling and trying to take the pot away.

In an MTT, sometimes stack size makes flat calling correct, if you would have a tough decision whether to call a 4-bet. In other situations, you want to reraise allin.

Also, position is important. I would be more likely to reraise from the SB or mid position. From early position, I might not reraise an early position raiser. From late position or the BB, it is a good situation to reraise, but also a good situation to flat call.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

i dont think this would be a bad rule under 20bb.

if you're at all deep, it sucks

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]
say a tight player opens in EP, and you hold QQ. If you reraise, he's probably going to play perfectly, meaning he'll fold every worst hand but never any better hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems so simple when I read it as typed, but it is a difficult concept to understand. This flies right over the heads of many, many people. Its often hard to be rational and think like this, especially late in a tournament, when you see QQ with an early position raiser. Its kind of like "ZOMG, a raise in front of me I have Queens and 20 BBs ALLLLL IINNN time final table yes!" When doing this you forget about the reads you have on him and things like you mention about making him play perfectly. In other words, well done sir.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

Somebody said here that they'd rather re-raise out of the blinds than in position. Why? Then you get to play an inflated pot out of position. This sucks above all.

Think about what you hate more: getting re-raised by a thinking player or called by a thinking player pre-flop. I love to just call in position, because your opponents know that you can have anything and have a really tough time playing against your hand that they know nothing about while you know much about their hand (why you should be cold calling in the first place).

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the cold call.

Devo

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

Not coldcalling with 30-50bb stacks is usually fine, but making a rule against it is silly. There are some times when reraising sucks and folding sucks more given various situations so calling is the only logical play.

I think though that making rules against making certain plays for the sake of obeying the rule that you have set is stupid. If you think that cold calling QJs or 66 to a raise with 30bbs is -EV then you should fold, otherwise call.

Maverick, the reason why people prefer 3betting OOP than IP is because we want to negate our positional disadvantage by reraising and trying to end the hand there, and it is the assumption before you do this that reraising is +EV in a vaccum.

In 6max cash games I will do a good amount of reraising and cold-calling, but it's very situational. I'm less likely to reraise various hands if there are weak players left to act after an opening raise. 3betting shuts them out of the pot, so calling is best typically there.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

FWIW, I coldcall ALLLL the time. It's a little less effective online because people squeeze too much, but that's only more reason to coldcall with the nuts.

Especially from the BB. Having a rule to never take advantage of sick pot odds late in a tournament is pretty brutal.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

I sometimes play without ever folding. It can really bring your game to new places.

Also, coldcalling is the most fun thing in poker. Why even play poker if you're not allowed to just call? It's so sad.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

cold calling is fun because it means u can play postflop

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Especially from the BB. Having a rule to never take advantage of sick pot odds late in a tournament is pretty brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is good

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

The reason I like to 3 bet out of the blinds with stronger hands is I'd rather put more in the pot when my hand is strong. When I have position I have the advantage of position that is harder to exploit in an already inflated pot. Decisions are much easier in larger pots therefore position is less important.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Especially from the BB. Having a rule to never take advantage of sick pot odds late in a tournament is pretty brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I usually agree with everything zeejustin says. I almost never flat out of position though, especially not to a single raise and almost never < 30 BBs deep. Do you mean flatting a single raise oop or a raise and multiple callers? Also what kind of stacks do you need to be flat calling alot, especially out of position?

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Especially from the BB. Having a rule to never take advantage of sick pot odds late in a tournament is pretty brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I usually agree with everything zeejustin says. I almost never flat out of position though, especially not to a single raise and almost never < 30 BBs deep. Do you mean flatting a single raise oop or a raise and multiple callers? Also what kind of stacks do you need to be flat calling alot, especially out of position?

[/ QUOTE ]
Say you are in the BB and someone raises to 2.5xBB in late position. With no ante, you are getting 2.7-1 pot odds; with 1xBB in ante, you are getting 3.3-1 pot odds; with 1.5xBB in ante, you getting 3.7-1 pot odds. If the late position raiser probably has any top 30% hand, I don't see why you can't call loosely.

I don't see how the positional disadvantage overrides pot odds. Also, if the money is fairly shallow, you can checkraise allin on the flop. In general, I don't see position as being as important with shallow money.

I posted about this in response to Bond's post saying you should call tight in the blinds OOP.

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

all depends on how much you spew postflop, if you have trouble getting away from 66 on KT4 boards, or refuse to go broke without a set, then cold calling isnt for you. id guess someone that needs rules to play by probably shouldnt be mixing it up with shallowish stacks postflop

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I coldcall ALLLL the time. It's a little less effective online because people squeeze too much, but that's only more reason to coldcall with the nuts.

Especially from the BB. Having a rule to never take advantage of sick pot odds late in a tournament is pretty brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know this?

Re: Never coldcall (theorish)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I coldcall ALLLL the time. It's a little less effective online because people squeeze too much, but that's only more reason to coldcall with the nuts.

Especially from the BB. Having a rule to never take advantage of sick pot odds late in a tournament is pretty brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know this?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do I know what? The squeeze online part? I still play online tournaments. I'm not banned from every site. I'm also friends with most of the top online tourney players, and we talk about live vs online all the time.