Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

My buddy and I were playin' the V's noon tourney yesterday. I rarely play tournies and he virtually never does. During the 1st break (after the end of the 3rd level) my buddy tells me that everyone at his table got 8775 in chips (everyone is sposed to start with 7500).

I advised him to tell the tourney director once he is out of the tourney. I figured what's done is done, but the tourney director should know he needs to go over pre tourney procedures with his dealers.

To my surprise, once my buddy busted out and notified the floor, the floor proceeds to dock 1500 chips from each player who started the tourney at that table.

1) What should my buddy have done and when should he have done it? Realise he wasn't even sure how many chips he is sposed to start with (1st time he played this tourney. . .it wasn't til he talked to me, at the 1st break, that he was sure somethin' wrong had occurred).

2) What should the floor do? Note that the floor was notified of the problem about 1/2 way through the 6th level (nearly 3 hours into the tourny).

Post deleted by Ryan Beal
 

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

Floor is retarted; there is no proof that your friend's accusation is correct. What if he'd said everyone at his table started with 10k or 12k chips?

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

I am the friend. The floor did a chip count after being notified and found that there were enough chips out in total to have added around 1500 to everyone's stack at single table at the tourney's start. I started with 8875. The floor, after notification, claimed that we all started with 9k. I know I didn't. I didn't want the whole table pissed at me, so I sat in silence, much like the Germans of the 1930s.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

A clearly better solution is to give 1.5k chips to all players not at your table. If I were at your table, sitting with 1.5k chips, and they told me "you're busted out now," I'd throw a fit right there.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
A clearly better solution is to give 1.5k chips to all players not at your table. If I were at your table, sitting with 1.5k chips, and they told me "you're busted out now," I'd throw a fit right there.

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this is the correct answer. you can't start docking chips also now what do you do with the 1500 chips your buddy had extra thats now spread around? super lame. give 1500 more chips to the field

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
A clearly better solution is to give 1.5k chips to all players not at your table. If I were at your table, sitting with 1.5k chips, and they told me "you're busted out now," I'd throw a fit right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is by far the best way to fix this problem.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

Seems apparent that nobody got busted out like that. If they had not broken that table, which also seems like the case, it sounds like a reasonable solution to me. I doubt everyone at that table can use the "I'm a newbie" excuse.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

The players should take some responsibility and have said something. It is your responsibility to know how many chips you are starting with and if there is any discrepancy to tell the floor. Im sure there was one or two people who knew and didn't say anything.

That being said the TD should have added chips to everyone else but that might have been difficult because of a number of reasons....they took away chips they didn't really have in the first place and they don't have them afterwards.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) What should my buddy have done and when should he have done it? Realise he wasn't even sure how many chips he is sposed to start with (1st time he played this tourney. . .it wasn't til he talked to me, at the 1st break, that he was sure somethin' wrong had occurred).

[/ QUOTE ]
What he should have done is notify the dealer and TD before the flippin' tourney started. Doing things this way...waiting until you bust and then narcing on the table...is about the worst combination I can imagine. While it was to your benefit, you said nothing. You wait until 2-3 hours into it to tell someone AFTER you've busted? And not a person at the table said anything during that entire time?

Sounds like an overall grand buncha people.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) What should my buddy have done and when should he have done it? Realise he wasn't even sure how many chips he is sposed to start with (1st time he played this tourney. . .it wasn't til he talked to me, at the 1st break, that he was sure somethin' wrong had occurred).

[/ QUOTE ]
What he should have done is notify the dealer and TD before the flippin' tourney started. Doing things this way...waiting until you bust and then narcing on the table...is about the worst combination I can imagine. While it was to your benefit, you said nothing. You wait until 2-3 hours into it to tell someone AFTER you've busted? And not a person at the table said anything during that entire time?

Sounds like an overall grand buncha people.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct.

TO all the people wanting to add chips or take away chips, you are all wrong.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
TO all the people wanting to add chips or take away chips, you are all wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know how to fix this, myself. My first reaction was "disqualify the whole table of cheaters". But...that's not fair to those couple players there who really did not count their stacks, or who did not know how many chips they were supposed to start with--you get plenty of n00bs playing in Venetian's tourneys.

I'm inclined to not change anything at this point in the tourney. 6 levels? And there has been no table balancing done? Nobody transfered to the table or away from it? Just feels like the ship has sailed. I dislike taking away 1500 chips from the current players. I dislike (less) adding 1500 to the others. I think I'm inclined to just say it's no longer correctable.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

as punishment, im more inclined to give everyone else 2k chips.

But yea, I don't think there's an easy fix. Everyone count your chips when you start! I see everyone do this in most AC tourneys I've played. And I always do too.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

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1) What should my buddy have done and when should he have done it? Realise he wasn't even sure how many chips he is sposed to start with (1st time he played this tourney. . .it wasn't til he talked to me, at the 1st break, that he was sure somethin' wrong had occurred).

[/ QUOTE ]
What he should have done is notify the dealer and TD before the flippin' tourney started. Doing things this way...waiting until you bust and then narcing on the table...is about the worst combination I can imagine. While it was to your benefit, you said nothing. You wait until 2-3 hours into it to tell someone AFTER you've busted? And not a person at the table said anything during that entire time?

Sounds like an overall grand buncha people.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct.

TO all the people wanting to add chips or take away chips, you are all wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is an excellent solution if the TD has a time machine. That not being the case, the question is what should the TD do with the information now that he has it hours after the tourney has started?

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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1) What should my buddy have done and when should he have done it? Realise he wasn't even sure how many chips he is sposed to start with (1st time he played this tourney. . .it wasn't til he talked to me, at the 1st break, that he was sure somethin' wrong had occurred).

[/ QUOTE ]
What he should have done is notify the dealer and TD before the flippin' tourney started. Doing things this way...waiting until you bust and then narcing on the table...is about the worst combination I can imagine. While it was to your benefit, you said nothing. You wait until 2-3 hours into it to tell someone AFTER you've busted? And not a person at the table said anything during that entire time?

Sounds like an overall grand buncha people.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct.

TO all the people wanting to add chips or take away chips, you are all wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is an excellent solution if the TD has a time machine. That not being the case, the question is what should the TD do with the information now that he has it hours after the tourney has started?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing, maybe make a mental note of who the people are that accepted the extra chips. The time to correct a mistake is when it occurs. There is no resolution to something that happened (or possibly didn't) hours ago.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

Hi all my name is Tim Mix and I am the TD at The Venetian and I would like to clear this up. Anthony the tournament coordinator called me when he was informed that some one thought they had received to many chips. I told him to do a chip count which is easy for us to do since we log every chip that goes out before the start of every tournament. When this was done there were about 1,300 more in tournament chips out than the 7,500 times the number of players. This is common due to the fact that there are some seats which never get sold that are dealt in and blinded off. Second no player was ever docked 1500 in chips. Both of these are complete lies. I would really like to know where you came up with 8775 for a chip count i mean if your going to make up a story atleast put something together that is somewhat reasonable.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

Hello this is Anthony Chester the tournament coordinator that was running yesterday's noon trny. Yes it was brought to my attention that there could have been a mistake the starting chip stacks at table #27. At the break I did do a chip count of the remaining tables, and just like our TD Tim Mix said in the previous post there was 1375 more TC then there should have been. Total chips in play were to be 570,000 TC there were 571,375. So there was no mistake at table #27 the extra chips came from the unsold seats that were blinded off during the 1st level that we alow late registration. The player that let me now about the possible mistake could have miscounted his chips. Also I did not take 1500 TC from anyone or give 1500 TC to any other players.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

I notified the floor after I busted out then walked away. I went back to over-explain my rationale for the late notification and during that final contact with the tournament coordinator these two things were said by him;
1) "Your table started out with 9k each....[Just wait around and see how I handle this.]"
2) "I'm gonna dock every player that started at table twenty-seven 1500 that is still in the tourney."

After hearing #2, I fled the area, so whether the dock happened or not, I don't know.

I'm still fairly certain that I counted my stack at >7500 TC after the tourney started (five 1k chips, five 500 chips, twelve 100 chips, seven 25 chips). I'm also fairly certain that the stacks around me were very similar to mine, which contributed to my silence; a mistake I won't make again.

Either way, thanks for jumping in Anthony.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

bht
stranger


Reged: 06/21/<u>05</u>
Posts: 2

Interesting.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

shrug - check my post history - I created my account in 2004 and didn't really use it for about 3 years [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]


I'm still fairly certain that I counted my stack at &gt;7500 TC after the tourney started (five 1k chips, five 500 chips, twelve 100 chips, seven 25 chips). I'm also fairly certain that the stacks around me were very similar to mine, which contributed to my silence; a mistake I won't make again.



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Also, you knew for certain at the first break that the starting stack was 7500. Yet you did not say anything until you busted out, nearly an hour later.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

Let's just close this out with "bht was mistaken" and "Anthony and Tim handled it all correctly."

I appreciate Tim and Anthony getting on and clearing things up. Very cool.

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

First off I want to thank the tourney director and coordinator for contributing to this thread. That being said, I must also say that part of Mr. Mix's post seems malicious.

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Both of these are complete lies. I would really like to know where you came up with 8775 for a chip count i mean if your going to make up a story atleast put something together that is somewhat reasonable.

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I certainly don't want to spread complete lies. Also, it's not like I conjured up this situation out of wholecloth. Here are the facts as I understood them.

1) My buddy at the start of the tourney noticed that he had more than 7500 chips. Everyone at the table had the same # of chips as him.

2) During the 1st break he asked me how many chips he was supposed to start with. I told him 7500 and he told me he started with more (like 8775 or something). I told him what's done is done and that I can't see a floor being able to fix any problem at this point and advised him to wait til he was out of the tourney to tell the floor. I figured if there was a problem the floor should be notified and could spread word to dealers to take better care in counting starting chips (or some other corrective action for the future).

3) After my buddy busted out, he told the floor he and everyone at the table started with more chips than they should have.

4) My buddy went back to talk to the floor about 10 minutes later. He was told by the floor that 1) at the table in question each player started with 9000 chips (not 7500) and 2) that to correct the situation he was going to take 1500 from each player's stack who started at that table.

5) That was the last my buddy spoke to the floor.


I certainly don't dispute the V's staff when they say that chips were not taken from players' stacks. That's what they're sayin', I'm sure that's true.


But it was conveyed to my buddy that the above corrective action was going to take place. Apparently it didn't.

It's very possible that my buddy was mistaken about the starting chips at his table and that there was no issue at the begining of the tourney.

There may have been misunderstandings in the communication between my buddy and the floor and between my buddy and me, but the above is pretty much what happened as it was related to me.

The only reason I'm writing this is because the V Tourney Director seemed to imply that I'm just makin' this chain of events up.


I'm much more creative when I put my mind to "making up a story." [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you knew for certain at the first break that the starting stack was 7500. Yet you did not say anything until you busted out, nearly an hour later.


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The "you" in question is my buddy. He asked me for advice as to what to do during the 1st break (when I told him that he was sposed to start with 7500).

I advised him to wait til the tourney was over to tell the floor. I figured that no corrective action could really be taken.

It's kind of like when a hand is over. If he had told me 1/2 way through level 2 a pot was awarded to a straight over a flush I would have told him the same thing. Wait til the tourney is over and then tell the floor (so that they may take action to prevent it in the future).

We all know the floor can't go back in time to fix problems with a hand--I applied the same logic to this situation. Whether they're actually analogous is a matter of debate. I made a judgement call on this one.

(This all may be hypothetical given that it seems that there may not have been any chip discrepancy in the first place, but I think it presents an interesting issue nevertheless.)

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

Ok this the problem as many of my players that have read this post then spoken to me personally. The player that says he started with to many chips should never waited till the 1st break to say something to his friend and then the second break to say something to me. I've been told things from he is a cheater to ban him from playing here. These actions are a little to extreme I would never ban anyone for this and as far as being a cheater thats a little rough too. Those who know me know I'm strict, but forgiving and always give someone a second chance. So I say this to that player like I said on tuesday, don't speak up after the fact speak up before the trny started. My dealers are very well trained on how to set up for the tournaments and remember this to all we are human mistakes do happen from time to time so please leave dealers alone and voice your frustrations to the management

Re: Wrong # of chips given at start of tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
The player that says he started with to many chips should never waited till the 1st break to say something to his friend and then the second break to say something to me.

So I say this to that player like I said on tuesday, don't speak up after the fact speak up before the trny started.

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Maybe I'm misreading the OP but, giving the player the benefit of the doubt, it seems to me the player saying he had too many chips wasn't aware of that fact until he spoke to his buddy at the first break. The original poster stated his buddy rarely plays tournaments so maybe he was unaware of how many chips he was supposed to have. If he didn't know then how could he have brought it to anyone's attention.

The most puzzling part to me is that 8775 in chips didn't seem odd enough to him to ask? I've never seen any tournament start with a chip stack that strange?

do yourself a big favor
 

And don't admit where you work or what your real name is. Unless you are the owner of a small room or ceo of the corporation, corporate jerkoffs who get ahold of your posts will almost certainly use what you say only against you. What's more, they will probably twist it around in their effort to ruin you, even if what you said caused no actual problem.

Let me give you an example from a real life casino. Two posters whose identities were known discuss issues from their room on this very forum. Corporate scumbag cuts and pastes specific passages, but not the entire post, twists around the discussions and completely change their meaning, and sends it to the big casino boss. Employees show up to work where their writeups have already been completed, conclusions drawn based solely on the cut and pasted text. No one will actually look at the whole conversation, and employees are only saved from being fired by a friend with a lot of clout who saves them. This paperwork still goes into their personelle files anyway, and is later used as the sole basis to deny one of them being rehired 18 months after they left in otherwise good standing. They left almost a year after the incident, so it was almost two and a half years and this bullcrap still haunted them.

Corporations are scum, and they have plenty of corporate lackeys ready to screw anyone and everyone for no reason at all. Some of these scumbags lurk on this forum, so either listen to my advice, or don't come a cryin' here when you get screwed.

Al

Re: do yourself a big favor
 

[ QUOTE ]

Let me give you an example from a real life casino. Two posters whose identities were known discuss issues from their room on this very forum. Corporate scumbag cuts and pastes specific passages, but not the entire post, twists around the discussions and completely change their meaning, and sends it to the big casino boss. Employees show up to work where their writeups have already been completed, conclusions drawn based solely on the cut and pasted text. No one will actually look at the whole conversation, and employees are only saved from being fired by a friend with a lot of clout who saves them. This paperwork still goes into their personelle files anyway, and is later used as the sole basis to deny one of them being rehired 18 months after they left in otherwise good standing. They left almost a year after the incident, so it was almost two and a half years and this bullcrap still haunted them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Lemme guess, a Harrah's room?

Re: do yourself a big favor
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Let me give you an example from a real life casino. Two posters whose identities were known discuss issues from their room on this very forum. Corporate scumbag cuts and pastes specific passages, but not the entire post, twists around the discussions and completely change their meaning, and sends it to the big casino boss. Employees show up to work where their writeups have already been completed, conclusions drawn based solely on the cut and pasted text. No one will actually look at the whole conversation, and employees are only saved from being fired by a friend with a lot of clout who saves them. This paperwork still goes into their personelle files anyway, and is later used as the sole basis to deny one of them being rehired 18 months after they left in otherwise good standing. They left almost a year after the incident, so it was almost two and a half years and this bullcrap still haunted them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Lemme guess, a Harrah's room?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be silly no former Harrah's employee would ever try to go back.

Re: do yourself a big favor
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Let me give you an example from a real life casino. Two posters whose identities were known discuss issues from their room on this very forum. Corporate scumbag cuts and pastes specific passages, but not the entire post, twists around the discussions and completely change their meaning, and sends it to the big casino boss. Employees show up to work where their writeups have already been completed, conclusions drawn based solely on the cut and pasted text. No one will actually look at the whole conversation, and employees are only saved from being fired by a friend with a lot of clout who saves them. This paperwork still goes into their personelle files anyway, and is later used as the sole basis to deny one of them being rehired 18 months after they left in otherwise good standing. They left almost a year after the incident, so it was almost two and a half years and this bullcrap still haunted them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Lemme guess, a Harrah's room?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be silly no former Harrah's employee would ever try to go back.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL

But some dealers I've come across are brain-dead stuuuuuuuupid, and in this enviroment, desparate for work, so...