Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

A good friend of mine has written a novel, of which I have helped him write a screenplay. Currently, he is reading his novel on Itunes for free. Search "Ancients of Eden", it's in the podcast section. He's reading one chapter a week, and is planning on putting up half of the novel in hopes of creating demand for the book.

Here's where I need your help oh brilliant and well read folks of the Lounge. If you would, and you find it interesting, we could really use some critique. I know that many folks here are in the field, or heck just voracious readers (hint!).

Specifically aside from general critque, we're currently seeking representation. Part of the difficulty of this, is that agents tend to want to see only a small sample size of the work from an unknown writer. Well here's one of our problems. The first four chapters have no dialogue. This is pretty odd for a typical novel, I however think it works fine in this situation, but I'm a subjective reader, with little writing experience. I have a feeling that this might be unacceptable to most agents or publishers, but am also very ignorant in the field.

If any of you could give a listen, and critique us, as well as give any suggestions as to representation or publishers, I'd be thrilled to hear it.

Thanks Loungers!

Runk

PS, if the critiques go anywhere, I'll talk to Lucian, and with his permission, send out the screenplay to those who request it.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Has been downloaded. I'll tell you my thoughts after a while. This is perfect since I was looking for something to listen while going home.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Great, thanks! Hope you enjoy it!

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Stephen King's book, On Writing, talks a bit about getting an agent. I really think you guys should read that. One thing he talks about is getting better known on the basis of short stories. A prize or two, however trivial, isn't a bad thing either. He suggests putting together a small portfolio of works before shopping around. FWIW, at least some high-end magazines like the New Yorker do the same thing. They want to get in on the ground floor of not just an interesting piece, but an interesting author. So they will ask for several samples of poetry, for instance.

So getting people to take little bites may be a good way to go about it, rather than asking them to gorge on a novel right away.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Could you post the text here?

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Thanks Blarg, ordered it on Amazon. I'll mention the short story thing to Lucian.

BPA, I'd rather not, as it's pretty huge, there's already 9 chapters up on Itunes. If not having an Ipod is an issue, you can listen to it by burning it on CD.

Thanks for the input guys!

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Runk,

I haven't downloaded it yet, but hope to. However, I'm really curious how you wrote a screenplay with a novel that has 4 chapters of no dialogue "that works." It seems odd to me.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Solo, I didn't write it, I helped adapt the screenplay from the novel. The screenplay has tons of dialogue right off the bat, the novel is quite another work altogether. Without giving too much away, the first four chapters spans 75,000 years of history and a solar anomaly.

I was going to post a short teaser, but the teaser covers the screenplay and not the novel, and it gives away some of the story, so I'd rather not. There's a teaaser you can download on Itunes if you'd like, but I'm not the type to even read the back of a book cover. So I'd prefer if y'all just delved in.

Thanks!

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

That's funny. The back cover of a book can practically make me weep.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Solo, it may not be the best example, but Space Oddesy's book and movie were written at the same time. The book actually has more dialog than the movie.

Without derailing this thread, also read the sparseness of "Last of the Mohicans" and then watch the movie.

OP: I don't have iTunes. I also don't like listening to books. I wish you would post a transcript instead. If it is good, I will gladly read some attachment. I have the software to read any document.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Dave, tommorow I'll speak with Lucian and see what his thoughts are as to shipping out some of the novel in text form.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Yeah, I wouldn't expect a huge portion of the novel to be posted here, but I'd be curious to read a teaser. I also tend to prefer reading to listening to books. If I like it, I'll get the audio.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

daveT, that Last of the Mohicans example is a really good one. Smart man.

I'll try to download it and stuff after I get finished with my big paper due Wednesday. College papers are not something that usually deter Loungers from thread contributions. I am special, though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Heard chapters 1 and 2 while biking home last night. It was raining, so it was harder to pay attention than usual. I liked the second chapter a lot. I guess I like hearing about the Olmecs, given that I was force to study them in elementary school. The first chapter was interesting, although as I said, it was hard to pay a lot of attention.
I listened to a quarter of chapter 3. I won't to know what happens, the narration is cool.
I'll be flying tomorrow, so I will probably listen to the other chapters on the flights.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Thanks for the input Enrique, glad you enjoyed it!

Spoke to Lucian today, he has an updated teaser he wants me to post, still waiting on the email. I tend to agree with those of you who enjoy reading as opposed to listening. Assuming Lucian agrees to putting up a few chapters, can anyone advise me of a way to do that aside from just posting them?

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Well, why are you afraid to post them? Is it copyright? 2+2 leaves the copyright of all posts in the hands of the posters. Is it because you want them taken down? Well, you might want to at least wait until after the vB switch. Mods here can delete things, but not things that are archived. If you have other concerns, let us know what they are so that we could help you find some way of posting this that's acceptable to everyone.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Thanks MrWookie, if it was my work, I'd have no problem posting it. While I have a writing credit on the screenplay, I have nothing to do with the novel. So before I do anything hasty, I'd love to get the author's permission first. If Lucian gives me the OK, I'd be thrilled to just post the first four chapters, as I'm sure it would definitely get more feedback.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

I think that there is a limit to how much each post page can take. Mr Wookie mentioned this limitations while compiling the beer thread.

Perhaps there is some way you could just make it an attachment.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Yeah, there's a length limit. You'll have to make it a series of posts. I have no idea what the exact limit is, though.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

I have reached midway of chapter 6. I can see why Lucian likes chapter 4 a lot. It is the coolest so far.
Did he do a lot of research into astronomy? Mayas? Olmecs? Or is it just a bit of research with imagination?
I am liking the description of the lawyer, I plan on listening to a few more chapters soon.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Hey Enrique, thanks for listening, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. Hmmmm well, Lucian is a pretty well read guy, to be frank, he's kind of a super genius, inventor, nasa scientist, and system analyst for a military think tank. So it's some combination of both, oddly enough he claims there's nothing that can be disproved in the novel, meaning that it could all be factual.

After much discussing with Lucian, I've convinced him to put up seven chapters in PDF form, linked from his website. He's putting it up there now, so it should be ready in a few hours. So hopefully some of our Lounge readers will jump in! Be back here shortly with a link.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Alright, finally, sorry for the delays folks, Lucian put up the first nine chapters. Hope y'all enjoy it and any feedback would be welcome!

http://www.dailyplanettv.net/vidpods...hapter_1-9.pdf

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Bumping in hopes of some critique now that we've got written form, thanks!

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

I have read some of the first chapter. Thanks for the written form. I will wait until I have read through it before posting thoughts.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

I am done with the first two chapters, and I am stopping there. Sci Fi is not my first choice in reading, but I always attempt to give a book an honest chance.

Ironic that I demanded a written form, since I would have probably enjoyed it more if I was listening to it. There is a difference between spoken word and written word, and few writers can be good at both.

Despite owning an appreciation for Tad Williams, I believe in brevity. This book is over-explained, there is nothing left to my imagination. The constant referencing to the modern geography pulls me out of the world he is trying to create. I believe in getting to the point; I loathe cliff-hangers and extensive description. I feel like I could write in one concise page what the author wrote in 9.

I know that fur sizzles when it burns, or maybe I don't: maybe I want it to go up in a puff of smoke with a loud "poof!" The relationship between author and reader is that the author is a guide. He will show you the city, it is up to you to find what you like. The author has to trust the reader's imagination to stay with him.

The book would be better if there was a discovery of a problem, rather than explaining the problem out-right. I am not saying that this IS the problem, but as a reader, I am thinking that this is the problem in the future. With the over description, I feel like I am not going to find any further surprises in the book, and the last thing I want to do is wallow through a second over-description.

It is clear that this author is very intelligent. He is writing in the wrong medium, and he is not trained. Joining a writing class would help him -- he does have a "voice" that should be heard if it is focused in the right direction.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Wow, ok Dave, thanks for your opinion! I do agree that the first few chapters are a bit over descriptive, I do wish you had made it a bit further, as you didn't really make it far enough to figure out if it was sci fi. I do however understand that if a book turns you off in the first few chapters, you'll never make it to the meat of the story.

I appreciate your opinions and thankyou for giving them, I'll pass on to Lucian what you said, thanks again!

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Just finished chapters 6 and 7. They are the best so far. I liked the description about Dwayne's family a lot, and we also finally get to the action after all the set up. I am looking forward to the next two chapters.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Dave give chapter 3 a chance, it has something happening in it. I think the Mayan-Spanish first interaction is worth the read.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Thanks Enrique! Glad to have a bit of positive feedback.

Glad you asked Dave to give it a bit more of a shot, as it might sound like groveling coming from me, but there is definitely more to the novel than just the first two chapters, and it's not all described so scientifically.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Enrique! Glad to have a bit of positive feedback.

Glad you asked Dave to give it a bit more of a shot, as it might sound like groveling coming from me, but there is definitely more to the novel than just the first two chapters, and it's not all described so scientifically.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, chapter 6, gives us a glimpse of a family today, so that isn't very scientific, and I think it was well done.

But chapter 3 was specially cool to me because I love the Mayan civilization. It was cool to picture the Mayan priests in the temples. I was picturing all of this being done in Chichen Itza (since 1544 AD would be in an area close to Chichen Itza for the Mayas) and I could picture everything, although some images of Apocalypto also crept into my mind.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Just finished chapters 8 and 9. I downloaded chapter 10 today. Looking forward to continuing to listen this. Chapter 9 was quite explicit and sad, but I agree with painting the Conquistadors as barbaric.

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

I just finished Chapter 11. The chapters are getting longer, chapter 11 is more than twice as long as other chapters, but it was very cool. The character of Maurize seems a bit of a cliche, but she's intelligent and I like the fact that she's Mayan.

In chapter 10 I got a bit confused about whether Luke actually married the woman described (the hot or if it was just the nightmare. It was hard to tell where the nightmare started.

I also heard the fact sheet, it mentioned some undisclosed location of the CIA. Did Lucian work at the CIA? How can he confirm something and not disclose it otherwise?

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Sorry, I didn't know you uploaded the text until today. I am up to CH 4. So far, I think the story is interesting and BIG. I like it a lot and I am not a fan of the genre.

From a constructive criticism perspective, I have a few thoughts/opinions:

1. The overall form and style reminds me, in a way, of Michener; a good thing. I know some people may object to the style. But, if done well, I think it's great.

With that in mind, I think that the scientific descriptions and language could be even more elevated and involved. Almost seems like the author is holding back.

2. Ironically, the next point could be confused with the first suggestion. Some of the descriptions and are overly complex. This is not in relation to the subject matter. Rather, it relates to the sentence structure and the overload that, at times, occurs therein.

3. Editing. I think the story and writing could really use a solid pass by a good editor. There are small technique issues that detract from the story. For example, a simile with an NBA player has no place in the described setting.

With regard to editing the story, I think that a good editor could help tighten up the whole effort. With a story this deep and big, you really need an outside observer to help maintain focus, momentum and continuity.

I am looking forward to finishing.

Thanks!

Re: Lounge readers and listeners, need your help!
 

Hey guys, thanks for the comments, today I showed Lucian the thread, and he asked me to thank all of you for your opinions and time.

[ QUOTE ]
I also heard the fact sheet, it mentioned some undisclosed location of the CIA. Did Lucian work at the CIA? How can he confirm something and not disclose it otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I pointed this question out to him Enrique, in typical Lucian fashion, he responded, "well the island isn't a secret to anyone, anymore." Which really doesn't answer your question at all. I know that Lucian works as a situation analyst for the military, and I know he has worked in the military, if he decides to share any more than that, it's up to him.

It's funny you mention chapter 11, Enrique, we had discussions at length that he wasn't satisfied with that chapter, and he's already rewritten quite a bit of it, as well as others.

BPA, thanks a ton for the constructive critism, he took it as a great compliment that you compared him to Michener, and has taken your advice to heart. He's already rewritten quite a bit of it, and is still in the process of rewriting more.

I'd like to thank all of you for your help. It's a ton of fun for me to be involved in watching the fruition of this novel. This is Lucian's first fictional work, and my first screenplay, so we're stumbling through the process, so far I'm very pleased with the results, but please keep the comments coming if you read or listen to more.