ZMA
 

give me the good, bad, and ugly.

Re: ZMA
 

Very std. Deepens sleep.

Really vivid dreams?

Re: ZMA
 

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Really vivid dreams?

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YES! Thank you. I'm glad I'm not insane. I almost never remember my dreams, and when I do they make zero sense and have no continuity whatsoever. The nights I took ZMA I had very realistic dreams that involved some stressful work situation or life decision. They were very realistic and I remembered them real well when I woke up.

I may have gotten good sleep, but I felt completely stressed out from my dream. I decided it wasn't worth it. I don't really have trouble falling asleep. I just don't sleep as deep as I'd like. But for this the cure was worse than the ailment.

Thremp, do the dreams fade over time? If so, maybe I'll give ZMA another chance.

Re: ZMA
 

suzzer,

I don't know. I take it on and off. When I remember mostly, I need to put it by my bed with a bottle of water.

You probably just have a really stressful life. I have just really intense porno dreams mostly. Which is somewhat... interesting. Most are just random stuff though.

I have not taken it long enough to know if they fade or not. I doubt they do. You are probably sleeping too short of a period though.

Re: ZMA
 

Another vote for really vivid dreams.

You can get the same lucid dream effect if you just eat foods that are high in magnesium/zinc before going to bed (think spinach, banana, etc).

This is due to increased % of time asleep spent in the REM cycle, which in turn means that you get more rest per hour of sleep. When I take ZMA, I feel well rested after sleeping 2 hrs less than usual, and like superman when I sleep my full amount.

Re: ZMA
 

I don't have the vivid dreams so much, but the recovery time seems to be realistic. I took 3 caps nightly during the middle of the baseball season.

Re: ZMA
 

Im probably gonna pick some up this week, ill let you know what i think (SNAC ZMA NightCap)

-Mike

Re: ZMA
 

I started taking the GNC ZMA a few weeks ago. So far, so good. More vivid dreams then normal, and I had to cut it from 2 pills to 1 (groggy in the morning, though the GNC version had valerian root and some other things).

Re: ZMA
 

It raises testosterone levels to near optimum levels and replenishes your zinc levels(obviously) which most males are deficiant in especially those who work out and/or blow their load on a regular basis.
And as people have said, it makes you sleep like a baby...A deeps sleep thats the reason for the vivid dreams(which could be a plus or a negative).

Its in my top 5 supplement list for sure! I highly recommend it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: ZMA
 

Just take the good ol Balco version.

Re: ZMA
 

I take the ON version, but I highly doubt it matters much.

Re: ZMA
 

So do you just take it right before bed or do you take it throughout the day. I've been battling sleep problems for years and would love if this could help.

Also do you know if it's available in Canada?

Re: ZMA
 

You take it before bedtime on an empty stomach. Not sure on availability in Canada.

Re: ZMA
 

Thx, guess i'll check at the local sup shop.

Re: ZMA
 

No way, take the t-nation version. Mad cheap, high quality.

Re: ZMA
 

I would but I've heard many times about supplements being stop at the boarder. I'd rather pay a little more and be sure I'm going to get them.

Re: ZMA
 

zma should get through the border without any problem since it's sold over here anyway.....i just ordered some after reading this thread even though i'm sure the vivid dreams are gonna [censored] with me at least 1/10 times. the prospect of the other 9/10 good not stressful dreams makes up for it

Re: ZMA
 

I can't figure out the ZMA love here. Does anyone know of a study (that is independent of any affiliations with Victor Conte or anyone else that stands to make a profit from ZMA hype) that shows ZMA actually works? I'm VERY skeptical that this supplement is anything but completely worthless.

The only studies I have seen are ones co-authored by Victor Conte (the developer of ZMA!) and this study, which disagrees with Conte's findings . Although to be fair, that study I just cited only tested ZMA on male, trained athletes, and doesn't comment on how ZMA could affect people with little or no training.

I'm willing to listen to arguments, as I'd love to add another supplement to my regime that I actually think works, but as of this moment, I just don't buy the hype.

Re: ZMA
 

That study shows (as per Wikipedia):

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Another study in 2004 found that ZMA has no effect on strength or hormone levels, but did show a lower rate of muscle catabolism and cited further study was recommended.[3]

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That's pretty much what most people here are echoing - lower rates of muscle catabolism is pretty damn effective for people who are cutting, and that almost certainly relates to recovery time.

Re: ZMA
 

[ QUOTE ]
That study shows (as per Wikipedia):

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Another study in 2004 found that ZMA has no effect on strength or hormone levels, but did show a lower rate of muscle catabolism and cited further study was recommended.[3]

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That's pretty much what most people here are echoing - lower rates of muscle catabolism is pretty damn effective for people who are cutting, and that almost certainly relates to recovery time.

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If it did indeed decrease rates of muscle catabolism, then I would absolutely agree that this was a worthwhile supplement. Maybe I'm missing something, but after reading through the results and discussion section again, I don't see where it comes to this conclusion at all.

From the discussion section to that study:

"The major findings of this study was that dietary supplementation of a commercially available ZMA supplement resulted in a non-significant 12-17% increase in serum zinc levels but did not appear to affect anabolic or catabolic responses to resistance training, body composition, or training adaptations."

There might be a small, favorable trend in regards to body composition according to the paper, but the data they found could easily be due to random chance. The authors found the changes "not statistically significant", and they contend that further study would have to be performed.

Re: ZMA
 

Who cares about studies. I'm sure you can find them if you try...

But we know that a diet high in zinc/magnesium increases REM sleep, and we know that increased REM sleep increases testosterone release. That's how it works, and that's why bodybuilders are supposed to not skimp on sleep and get a minimum of 8 hrs a night. If you want to get the same effects, like I said before, just eat a crapload of foods with zinc/magnesium 30-60 minutes before you go to bed.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't figure out the ZMA love here. Does anyone know of a study (that is independent of any affiliations with Victor Conte or anyone else that stands to make a profit from ZMA hype) that shows ZMA actually works? I'm VERY skeptical that this supplement is anything but completely worthless.

The only studies I have seen are ones co-authored by Victor Conte (the developer of ZMA!) and this study, which disagrees with Conte's findings . Although to be fair, that study I just cited only tested ZMA on male, trained athletes, and doesn't comment on how ZMA could affect people with little or no training.

I'm willing to listen to arguments, as I'd love to add another supplement to my regime that I actually think works, but as of this moment, I just don't buy the hype.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: ZMA
 

I gave this stuff another try Friday night. I woke up my usual bunch of times during the night, only this time I was all worked up about some stressful dream each time. This never happens to me if I don't take ZMA. I wake up remembering my dream like once every 3 months or so. Not only Friday, but it happened last night as well and I didn't even take any.

Since I've started working out and exercising a lot more, I've been sleeping deeper anyway.

Selling one mostly full bottle of ZMA to the highest bidder.

Re: ZMA
 

ZMA is garbage.

Re: ZMA
 

$600 banana suit come on

Re: ZMA
 

I would say that if you start having [censored] up dreams that stress you out because you take ZMA you might have some other problems to deal with that you should see a shrink for. ZMA is just zinc and magnesium, nothing fancy. Same stuff is in a multivitamin, but 2x as much zinc (200% instead of 100%) and a full 100%dv of magnesium instead of the 13% in a multivitamin. Also some vitamin B12 thrown in the mix. THAT'S IT. This isn't some crazy drug people... eat some spinach or pop some multivits and you get the exact same stuff.

/rant

Re: ZMA
 

procast,

I'm gonna assume that you don't have very intense dreams while on ZMA. It be for real.

Re: ZMA
 

procast, the first time I took it I had no idea about the dream thing, just that it was supposed to make you sleep deeper. So you can't even say I had those dreams because the idea was planted there. And the dreams aren't like butchering babies or anything. They're just stuff like some really stressful office deadline, or chick problem.

LOL at seeing a shrink just because of that. Maybe I should just check myself into a mental hospital. I think I might be a danger to society.

Re: ZMA
 

I didn't say that I didn't have epic, movie-like dreams, but they're not STRESSFUL or anything. I wake up and say damn, that was a [censored] up dream but I sure feel well rested! Heh. I figure those intense dreams are my mind just processing a bunch of stuff that was building up. I was just suggesting if the content of your dreams actually disturbs you, then you have other problems, like being too stressed out about work in the first place maybe.

Re: ZMA
 

I AM NOT TOO STRESSED OUT ABOUT WORK. GO [censored] YOURSELF!!!

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: ZMA
 

lol

Re: ZMA
 

ive gotten sick every time I have taken it...

Re: ZMA
 

You need therapy.

Re: ZMA
 

Alright I've been having some seriously f'd dreams now that I've been taking ZMA more regularly. This is either placebo or reality. Either way I blame you guys.

Re: ZMA
 

are the dreams so bad that you'd stop? I just purchased some ZMA and I'm getting it on Saturday so I'll trip report it for sure but I'm curious.

Re: ZMA
 

people, please stop buying this worthless placebo, unless you REALLY like vivid dreams.

Re: ZMA
 

i like the vivid dreams, thanks guys for sharing this info.

as for useless, most guys are deficient in magnesium and, if they um, you know, ejaculate daily, deficient in zinc too (maybe). the only thing I would say is that if you take too much zinc you might get copper deficient, I'm surprised they didn't put like .5 mg copper in the ZMA.

actually I've always taken magnesium supplement and sometimes zinc, I just never knew if you take it before bed it will dream you.

anybody know if this dream effect is dependent upon diet, I mean if you take it before bedtime with a snack, will it not have the dream effect (for those that don't want it). I mean tryptophan was a sleep inducer but you couldn't take it with any protein source, although carbs were ok (cause the other amino acids would crowd out the trptophan out of the blood brain barrier and it wouldn't get to the brain)

Re: ZMA
 

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people, please stop buying this worthless placebo, unless you REALLY like vivid dreams.

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shut up about it being a placebo -- it's no more a placebo than a serving of spinach/bananas is. obv it will have a different effect on people, like a vitamin. but if you are having crazy dreams, you know its working. more REM sleep means higher testosterone levels and this has been proven in studies.

Re: ZMA
 

Welbutrin gives you vivid dreams too but i never hear any bodybuilders recommending it.

edit: if you guys have money to waste, go ahead and keep buying ZMA. a placebo is better than nothing for some people.

Re: ZMA
 

[ QUOTE ]
anybody know if this dream effect is dependent upon diet, I mean if you take it before bedtime with a snack, will it not have the dream effect (for those that don't want it). I mean tryptophan was a sleep inducer but you couldn't take it with any protein source, although carbs were ok (cause the other amino acids would crowd out the trptophan out of the blood brain barrier and it wouldn't get to the brain)

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You're supposed to take it on an empty stomach before bed. Calcium and zinc compete for the same uptake in your body (the same receptors or whatever...i suck at biology), and your body much "prefers" calcium, so taking the ZMA with other food is basically useless apparently (or at least far less useful)

-Mike

Re: ZMA
 

I am being serious. I bought ZMA, and have taken it twice. I got sick both times(vomitting). Is this normal? The 2nd time I made sure I didnt eat within a few hours of taking it. The first time I ate within an hour of taking it...