100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

MP2 ($186.35)
CO ($18.55)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($100.50)
BB ($54.55)
Hero ($97)
UTG+1 ($97)
MP1 ($248)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3.5</font>, UTG+1 calls $3.50, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>.

Flop: ($8.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $15</font>, Hero calls $9.

Turn: ($38.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: ($38.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $19</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $78.5</font>, Hero calls $59.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: $195.50


Villain is 13/3/3, which leads me to think he'd be aggressive enough with his made hands. The turn check really threw me off, considering how incredibly drawy the board is.

His flop raise made me think 99/22, but I obv couldnt just fold there.

The turn was SOOOO drawy, that i couldnt see any made hand checking behind. At this point I'm thinking AKhh or maybe AQ is his hand.

So i make my medium value-bet on the river and he pushes. WTF? 99 is pretty much out of the question now. I cant see him checking a vulnerable hand like 22 behind. So I did what I always do in situations that dont make sense - I called.

Thoughts?

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

Why did you check the turn?

So many draws out there ... please bet that next time, no need to get tricky

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you check the turn?

So many draws out there ... please bet that next time, no need to get tricky

[/ QUOTE ]

Donkbet?

He raised me on the flop. You advocate a stopngo? Or would 3-bet on the flop be better?

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]

The turn was SOOOO drawy, that i couldnt see any made hand checking behind. At this point I'm thinking AKhh or maybe AQ is his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you can rule out AhKh, simply cause you got the Kh...
For me, he seems to make a play on you there.
Two possibilities: I think he might have def raised the flop with a strong draw like AhQh or KcTc, that means either a FD or an OESD. On turn, he either has made his hand with the OESD and checks behind to make you bet on the river. Yet, this line isn't too likely for me. But if he really had a FD, he could have taken the free card on turn and, after your smallish bet on river, he thought that he could take away that pot from you with a big bluff.
I know these ideas might sound a little farfetched, so any comments welcome.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

Donking turn seems bad imo. I really don't understand his line and it seems like the only hands he can have here that beat you are 99 and 22 and a discounted QQ. However, busted hearts don't make a lot of sense either unless its AhQh and he's good enough to turn this into a bluff or bad enough to think he can get value out of a raise and neither is likely the case. I probably call, but I'm a little stationy against lines that don't make sense.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you check the turn?

So many draws out there ... please bet that next time, no need to get tricky

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, the whole hand is going down the darkside. If we give this guy a range of 22+/AQ+ or so then what do we do on the flop?


How much do you propose betting on the turn? What is your plan is if he raises you? What is your river plan?

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you check the turn?

So many draws out there ... please bet that next time, no need to get tricky

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, the whole hand is going down the darkside. If we give this guy a range of 22+/AQ+ or so then what do we do on the flop?


How much do you propose betting on the turn? What is your plan is if he raises you? What is your river plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like hero was going to the wall with this one anyways so why not have river action take place on the turn? One less card to worry about that might bring the flush/set/trips along.

KK has been my el guapo past three sessions ... probably do the opposite of what I say for a +ev experience [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

His line makes 0 sense for any hand other than a busted draw to me. Problem with that is that with his stats, how often is he calling an UTG raise in UTG+1 with SCs or unsuited broadway?

Turn check a misclick? I'd probably call, lose to a boat/qauds and reload.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

i think you lost on the river to trip 9's right? plus, he got his free cards...

so, FD, or 9's, since any Q should be betting this turn again.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

Villian is tight. Villian was UTG+1 so he his range seems like it would have to be tighter than his average even.

I think you played the flop fine.

On the turn, it seems like you are up against AQ, so I think i'd probably just lead out since AQ isn't folding most likely and you have to charge any possible draw.

On the river, hmm. It's tough. If he was a crafty one who was on a heart draw but then decided to bluff as if he had a club, well...

I guess you have to pay this off getting decent odds, but I don't know how often this guy is bluffing and it doesn't seem like he would do this with AQ...

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

So on the turn we are up against AQ/QQ/99/22 or a pure bluff.

Where exactly are we making money from on the turn?

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

Ty all for the input.

The results do not clear up the hand one bit.

Villain shows QQ

Hero goes http://www.mcleansystems.com/dog.gif

Also...after reading replies, it seems like the only other way to play the hand that would not be spew would be bet/folding the turn, which I can see as a solid play.

I think my line is probably 2nd best...but who knows when opponent plays like that.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

If you're going to call the river shove, why are you leading? Either b/f or c/c.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

Man I got in too late here, and I hate seeing the results, because I was going to point out the unliklihood of the majority of the hands besides a set.

First of all, how many hands is 13/3/3 over... 10 hands, 100, 1000? Is he a rock, a regular, or just an unknown? If it's a legit sample size, think about villain's position, which is UTG+1. How many of you are playing AQ UTG+1 to a raise when you have a 13 vpip? Maybe AQh. Maybe.

Plenty of folks don't reraise QQ. On the flop when you were raised, you said your thoughts moved to 22/99...a set. But you also go on and say you can't just fold there. Why not 3-bet the flop on a drawy board? I'd be happy to play for stacks here.

Villain takes control of the hand, but shows weakness by checking the turn back, which confuses you. Rightly so.

However, superceding this is the enormous raise on the river. This is why we need to know more about villain. Who is this guy, is he capable of raising the river with less than close to the nuts, which is so rare at 100NL FR?

I don't think you played the hand too terribly, but I would definitely, definitely, fold the river.

A big lesson I think that a lot of people can learn from this hand is to understand how slim EP ranges are, especially versus UTG or UTG+1 raisers. Someone having 13 VPIP most likely is not going to have 13 VPIP UTG+1, it's probably closer to half that.

Re: 100NL ....why would he check the turn?
 

Villain played the hand well.

I noticed this line before (I also fell victim to it - just yesterday!) and more often than not you can extract by it, especially if you are taggish and your opponent might be observant. It is as if your opponents forget about the set possibility by the turn.