It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

Party 109$
30/60 level

Interesting dynamics between the villan and myself and the villan. He has been lagging it up limping 1/2 his hands, raising 1/4. Last orbit, he min-raised my BB, bet same on flop and turn, folded to my turn raise when a 3 flush came on board. Last hand, he open limped, and folded when I made it 250. He hasn't limped a raising hand that I have seen, and I suspect he is just a bad lag, but tough to tell.

Stack sizes:
UTG: t3445
UTG+1: t2714
UTG+2: t2873
Hero: t3350
MP2: t3966
MP3: t1877
CO: t2785
Button: t2840
SB: t2800
BB: t3310

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t60 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t90)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t250</font>, 6 folds, UTG+2 calls t190 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t400)</font>.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t590, 2 players)
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t350</font>, UTG+2 calls t350 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t940)</font>.

I like AQ more than some. The rest of the table had been pretty tight, and I was just looking to isolate the LAG with position.

Pretty standard for a c-bet or for value. His range is still very wide, IMO

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t1290, 2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero ??

I still think I am good here, but am unsure of the best line. I dont see many worse hands calling, any thoughts?

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

im not looking to play such a big pot anymore now that there is a 4 straight and flush possibilities against a guy whose range could easily include those types of hands. im looking to check behind there and possibly call a river bet but even consider folding depending on the action

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

[ QUOTE ]
im not looking to play such a big pot anymore now that there is a 4 straight and flush possibilities against a guy whose range could easily include those types of hands. im looking to check behind there and possibly call a river bet but even consider folding depending on the action

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking exactly, I checked behind.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
He instabets 666

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

If you think you've got the best hand, why not make a bet that forces him to pay to draw to the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] but also allows him to bluff-raise you? Something like 550?

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you think you've got the best hand, why not make a bet that forces him to pay to draw to the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] but also allows him to bluff-raise you? Something like 550?

[/ QUOTE ]

B/c I might not have the best hand. If not, I'd like to escape with some chips. Also, I think in general, you see a river bluff more often than a turn c-r bluff.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

Let me rephrase, semi-bluff-raise you.

I think the fact that you can't commit hamstrings you.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im not looking to play such a big pot anymore now that there is a 4 straight and flush possibilities against a guy whose range could easily include those types of hands. im looking to check behind there and possibly call a river bet but even consider folding depending on the action

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking exactly, I checked behind.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
He instabets 666

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know. I agree with your line to this point and I probably call here for a few reasons.

The first is the worst: I'm building a mental database of times that I have been bet into like this (no one has ever typed out the number of the beast before).

It's an easy and cheap bluff for villain to peel off, given how the board has developed and the pattern of your betting.

OTOH, and as a matter of interest, how many times does does a low spade fold here, if raised all in?

And FWIW, if someone asked me to him on a specific hand here, I would say 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6x because in my small mental database, the majority of these weird bets seem to have some relation to the cards in the hand.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

Lead out for ~800 on turn.

Here's why. Look at the flop. Villain should raise to take initative and peel on two streets at his price.

Push any turn.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

Exactly what hand is he calling your flop bet with and then not beating you by river? Even his weaker aces have a 33% chance of holding a spade.

Bet out on the turn. If raised you can fold rather easiily. If called you may have bought a free showdown.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

I like your line just fine, call the river bet.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly what hand is he calling your flop bet with and then not beating you by river? Even his weaker aces have a 33% chance of holding a spade.

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I think he calls the flop with pretty much any pair. I think AX, QX, JX, QJ, 22-99, plus any flush draw, or Ks, Ts.

The turn doesnt eliminate anything from his range. I felt pretty strongly that he opens for a raise with AT, so the only real hands I am worried about on the river are KT, QT, JT, T9 (although T9 folds most of the time on the flop, unless he has Ts), and AXs. As for the AXs, I dont know where you came up with 33%, but that isnt right. We know he doesnt have the As, so there are 7 total combos of AX that beat us. That is a VERY small % of the total AX combos possible.

[ QUOTE ]

Bet out on the turn. If raised you can fold rather easiily. If called you may have bought a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
-He pretty much knows I dont have a flush draw, since all of the high spades are gone. I can imagine a bad bluff here.
-The showdown isnt free, since I just bet the turn, when I could have gotten to the river for nothing. If I am called on the turn, I can't really imagine folding the river, no matter what falls.
-In my mind, betting the turn ruins our hand value against all but a very very specific range of hands for villan.


I called b/c the spades left just dont fit any hands that call the flop except for the Ts, and AX.

Villan shows Ad6d, Hero wins.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

The reason I found this hand interesting, is at first glance, you think "SH#!^%, I am behind the 2s!!" But when you think through the hand you realize how rare it is for him to have a spade here. During the hand, my intuition told me that I was ahead, but when I broke it down afterwards, I realized that I was way ahead. To me it was an extreme example of the importance of putting someone on a range and sticking to it. It is a skill the better players have (especially cash players) that someo of us tournament donks are missing. Too often I feel lost on the river, and am basically guessing what to do, but when I take 10 minutes after the hand, I realize that all of the info I needed was there, I just didnt process it.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

I like your line Tom. A turn bet isnt good here as it reopens you up to a bigger bet where you are put in a weird spot. Yes you might THINK you have him beat but it is a scary board, essentially the check on the turn and the call on the river accomplish the same thing, getting to SD rather cheaply on a scary board. I like it on every street.
~Justin

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I found this hand interesting, is at first glance, you think "SH#!^%, I am behind the 2s!!" But when you think through the hand you realize how rare it is for him to have a spade here. During the hand, my intuition told me that I was ahead, but when I broke it down afterwards, I realized that I was way ahead. To me it was an extreme example of the importance of putting someone on a range and sticking to it. It is a skill the better players have (especially cash players) that someo of us tournament donks are missing. Too often I feel lost on the river, and am basically guessing what to do, but when I take 10 minutes after the hand, I realize that all of the info I needed was there, I just didnt process it.

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Yeah.. I read this hand and thought that you played it fine and the river was a fold. Then I read ucla's post and I figured I was missing something.

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

Noah,
Would you bet turn?

If so, what amount do you call on this river if played as is?

I only ask because especially with this player type there isnt much difference. If you bet the turn you are setting up a bigger bet to call on the flop if you are ahead anyway which will leave you with less of a chance to take it down. Keeping the pot small here and calling a reasonable river bet, which t666 is, is key in this spot.
~Justin

Re: It sure feels like he is ready to teach me a lesson....
 

Yeah... I agree. Check turn, call river is solid. I just didn't realize that until I stopped to think about the fact that there aren't many hands with spades in them in villain's range.