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ESPN top 50 Boxers
ESPN top 50 Boxers
I want to comment but I really don't know where to start. This list is really, really bad. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
link not working for me
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Tyson = 50
Mayweather = 48 I stopped right there. Am I insane in thinking that's way, way ofF? |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Tyson 50 and Roy Jones Jr 46 ?
Damn I clearly know nothing about boxing, lol |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
I'm not going to claim to know a thing about boxing. I also haven't watched most of these guys fight, as I'm fairly young.
That said, I have no idea how Joe Frazier is that far down the list. I will admit, I get much of my boxing information from my father (who fought professionally for a few fights) who was a big Joe Frazier fan. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
They got LaMotta way too high on that list. I wonder if his exposure through Raging Bull gave him an edge.
Marciano should be easily in the top 10, not 14th. And I am very happy to see Tyson only ranked 50th. I was afraid he'd end up cracking the top ten. IMO, he doesn't even deserve to be on the list. Though his position in boxing history is highly debatable. Jersey Joe Walcott is missing from this list as well. I feel that it is highly unlikely that he'd be in the top 10. But he should definitely be somewhere in the middle of that list. So, by process of elimination, who's in the top 10? The obvious are: Muhammad Ali Sugar Ray Robinson Joe Louis Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Sonny Liston Who else? Other names not yet on the list that are possibilities: Lennox Lewis Jersey Joe Walcott Willie Pep Floyd Patterson Rocky Graziano Max Baer Max Schmeling Jess Willard John Sullivan |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
so we have to wait til tomorrom for the top 10?
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
lol, ESPN is jopke.
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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Marciano should be easily in the top 10, not 14th. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely. This one really stuck out. [ QUOTE ] So, by process of elimination, who's in the top 10? The obvious are: Muhammad Ali Sugar Ray Robinson Joe Louis Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Sonny Liston Who else? Other names not yet on the list that are possibilities: Lennox Lewis Jersey Joe Walcott Willie Pep Floyd Patterson Rocky Graziano Max Baer Max Schmeling Jess Willard John Sullivan [/ QUOTE ] Except for Sullivan, any of those other guys in the top ten is a travesty I think. I have no idea how monsters like Hagler, Hearns, Holmes, and Frazier are ranked so low. Hearns vs Hagler was like one of the greatest fights ever. The only time you see guys go at each other like that is in the movies. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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Hearns vs Hagler was like one of the greatest fights ever. The only time you see guys go at each other like that is in the movies. [/ QUOTE ] Ward vs. Gatti |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Judging from the ubiquitous MMA vs. Mike Tyson threads on 2+2, you'd think Tyson was the greatest boxer ever. I think 50 may be a little low, but I'm glad to see him way down the list where he belongs.
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Tyson at #50?
Roy Jones Jr at #46? Holmes above Holyfield? Whatta joke. Nice to see ESPN maintaining that quality we've all come to know and love. b |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
if you think tyson is a top 20 boxer, espn isn't the joke.
i'm suprised hopkins and to a greater extent, whitaker are so low. this is what espn wanted out of their list, people discussing boxing. if you want to come up with a better list, give it a try. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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if you think tyson is a top 20 boxer, espn isn't the joke. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't say where I'd put him. The fact they have him at #50, it is an absolute joke. Note: Big difference between #50 and #20. You might also want to explain how Jones Jr is so low. Another great joke by ESPN. b |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
agreed, I figured Tyson would be in the 30's
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Yeah, terrible list.
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Well, they posted the final ten.
So, here is the entire list for those who wish not to click on the link. 50. Mike Tyson 49. Erik Morales 48. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. 47. Bernard Hopkins 46. Roy Jones, Jr. 45. Carlos Monzon 44. Pernell Whitaker 43. Marco Antonio Barrera 42. Alexis Arguello 41. Ted "Kid" Lewis 40. Evander Holyfield 39. Oscar De La Hoya 38. Larry Holmes 37. Thomas Hearns 36. Eder Jofre 35. Marvin Hagler 34. Emile Griffith 33. Ruben Olivares 32. Jose Napoles 31. Billy Conn 30. Terry McGovern 29. Sandy Saddler 28. Jake LaMotta 27. Ezzard Charles 26. Joe Frazier 25. Marcel Cerdan 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 23. Jimmy McLarnin 22. Barney Ross 21. Tony Canzoneri 20. George Foreman 19. Stanley Ketchel 18. Archie Moore 17. Mickey Walker 16. Gene Tunney 15. Jimmy Wilde 14. Rocky Marciano 13. Harry Greb 12. Sugar Ray Leonard 11. Joe Gans Top ten: 10. Sam Langford 9. Jack Dempsey 8. Jack Johnson 7. Benny Leonard 6. Roberto Duran 5. Willie Pep 4. Joe Louis 3. Henry Armstrong 2. Muhammad Ali 1. Sugar Ray Robinson ----------- At least I can say that ESPN got the #1 boxer correct. Notables omitted from list: Sonny Liston Floyd Patterson Max Baer Ernie Shavers Jersey Joe Walcott Max Schmeling --------- I am very surprised that Sonny Liston isn't on that list. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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[ QUOTE ] if you think tyson is a top 20 boxer, espn isn't the joke. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't say where I'd put him. The fact they have him at #50, it is an absolute joke. Note: Big difference between #50 and #20. You might also want to explain how Jones Jr is so low. Another great joke by ESPN. b [/ QUOTE ] instead of saying the list sucks, explain where these people should be ranked. what is wrong with jones at 46? on a list that has pernell whitaker 5 spots behind de la hoya and 20 spots behind chavez, some people sure have weird complaints |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
It seems this list is all about "boxers", (which the title implies) and not "fighters" or "brawlers", thus the brawlers so low and the boxers so high.
It is just one take on the definition of what makes a pugilist great. Their top 50 fighters or brawlers list would look completely different, LDO. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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It seems this list is all about "boxers", (which the title implies) and not "fighters" or "brawlers", thus the brawlers so low and the boxers so high. It is just one take on the definition of what makes a pugilist great. Their top 50 fighters or brawlers list would look completely different, LDO. [/ QUOTE ] I'm just a casual fan, so maybe I'm mistaken. But I thought both Duran and Dempsey were brawlers as opposed to "boxers". They also title the list "50 greatest fighters" on another page. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=2815643 I think they just use "boxers" to mean people who box for a living, not necessarily a style of boxing. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
does anyone have a resonable explaination as to why tyson is 50th? i'm genuinely curious b/c i know nothing about boxing. i just figured dominating the heavy weight division for four years or whatever would be enough to put him a little higher.
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does anyone have a resonable explaination as to why tyson is 50th? [/ QUOTE ] because his 2 biggest wins were vs. a light heavyweight well out of his league (spinks), and a washed up larry holmes @ 40. the rest of his wins came against has beens/never were's. if he hadn't gone to jail, lewis/holyfield would have exposed him 5 years earlier than they did. not good news when your career is basically nothing after 24 y.o. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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It seems this list is all about "boxers", (which the title implies) and not "fighters" or "brawlers", thus the brawlers so low and the boxers so high. It is just one take on the definition of what makes a pugilist great. Their top 50 fighters or brawlers list would look completely different, LDO. [/ QUOTE ] This is totally inaccurate. The most overrated fighter on the list is a brawler (LaMotta), while, as pointed out, a pure boxer like Whitaker is underrated. It's a bad list but that has nothing to do with them valuing technique over aggression. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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[ QUOTE ] It seems this list is all about "boxers", (which the title implies) and not "fighters" or "brawlers", thus the brawlers so low and the boxers so high. It is just one take on the definition of what makes a pugilist great. Their top 50 fighters or brawlers list would look completely different, LDO. [/ QUOTE ] This is totally inaccurate. The most overrated fighter on the list is a brawler (LaMotta), while, as pointed out, a pure boxer like Whitaker is underrated. It's a bad list but that has nothing to do with them valuing technique over aggression. [/ QUOTE ] Okay. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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Tyson = 50 Mayweather = 48 I stopped right there. Am I insane in thinking that's way, way ofF? [/ QUOTE ] Mayweather's never lost. I don't understand. |
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I am very surprised that Sonny Liston isn't on that list. [/ QUOTE ] Why would he be? Sure hes back to back 1 round knockouts of Pattersen were impressive, but other than that? Just think of hes fights with Ali, giving up between rounds in the first without any injury, and then a 1 round knockout loss in the second. Rocky Marciano is WAY to high on the list, I know hes the only heavyweight champ to stay undefeated through hes career, but that was by ingeniering winning sessions, also he was spoonfeed over the hill fighters through hes intire career. Of you´re "Notables omitted from list" only Walcott is deserving. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Can't decide which is worse, Foreman at 20 or Monzon at 45.
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
20 is a little too high for Foreman but I agree with ranking him ahead of Holmes, Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis and obviously Frazier who he absolutely destroyed. As flukish as it might have been, coming back at his advanced age knocking out Moorer, linear champion at the time, was monumental.
Monzon I agree is ridicously low. So is Eder jofre and so of course is Whitaker. They're all as high as top in the top 20 imo. Lamotta is too high. As is Frazie. I would rank Robinson and Armstrong 1. and 2. followed by Ali and Louis. Dempsey and Johnson I also think are too high but I guess that all depend on how much you weigh in the whole mythical factor. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] if you think tyson is a top 20 boxer, espn isn't the joke. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't say where I'd put him. The fact they have him at #50, it is an absolute joke. Note: Big difference between #50 and #20. You might also want to explain how Jones Jr is so low. Another great joke by ESPN. b [/ QUOTE ] instead of saying the list sucks, explain where these people should be ranked. what is wrong with jones at 46? on a list that has pernell whitaker 5 spots behind de la hoya and 20 spots behind chavez, some people sure have weird complaints [/ QUOTE ] Jones was one of the most dominant fighters of the time. Over a few weight classes. He could've ruled a couple weight classes indefinitely. Him at #46 is alot more glaring than Whitakers spot behind chavez. Chavez should be above Whitaker and DLH. He ruled for how many years? I'd easily put Jones Jr up around Chavez. b |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Jones when he was at his best was probably the most untouchable boxer I've ever seen. The night he revenged his earlier DQ loss to Montell Griffin, I don't think anyone ever could have beaten him.
Having said that I would definitely not rank him ahead of Whitaker and probably not ahead of Cahvez either. DLH is closer I think. What separates them mostly, is the huge difference in competition. Jones has two great wins really. Hopkins and James Toney. The rest is not so good. I remember arguing against all his haters that the main reason his opponents looked so awful was that Jones simply was that superiour, but fact is that the moment Jones lost just a fraction of his speed and athleticism, he was exposed as a pretty ordinary boxer. Someone who made a ton of mistakes. Three defeats to Tarver and Johnson don't look so good and really hurt his legacy in my opinion. His one fight as heavyweight winning an alphabet title might look good on paper but John Ruiz was a total bum and stylewise a dream for the much faster Jones. Whitaker is the one who should be ranked the highest. He is, with all due respect to Wille Pep, the greatest defensive fighter ever and completely outclassed, at the time 88 and 0, PfP number 1 and already greatest jr welterweight of all time, JC Chavez. That was a career defining fight at the time. A rare case of the two best fighters in the world squaring off, and it was Whitaker who clearly came out on top. For all his achivements, some of them questionable even, because of that fight, I can't see Chavez being ranked ahead of Whitaker ever. Before that particular fight Whitaker had already dominated the lightweight division and convincingly beat one hall of famer in Azumah Nelson as well as several other good fighters. Sure Chavez had more wins and no they weren't all mexican cab drivers but as far as quality opponents go, I think they were pretty even. Following the Chavez win, Whitaker goes on to win the welterweight title beating a very good fighter in Buddy Mcgirt, twice, and then even conquering the jr middleweight title eventhough he is clearly not comfortable at that weight. THEN two years later definitely not in his prime anymore, he goes on to give a prime DLH a boxing lesson. I know DLH officially won that fight but I think general consensus have since moved towards that it was actually Whitaker who won. I certainly had him a clear winner. Oscar hardly layed a glove on him throughout the whole fight. I guess a case can be made for Jones being ahead of Chavez though. It depends on how much you want to punish Jones for his recent losses. Is it just a case of yet another great fighter being washed up? Ali obviously isn't hurt by his loss to Berbick. Leonard is not hurt by losing to Camacho and etc etc Or was he truly exposed? I would rank them Whitaker, Chavez, Jones, DLH |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Tyson at #50 is a good ranking. Early in his career, he fought a bunch of schlubs who were afraid to even touch him. Spinks really should have stayed in the light heavyweight division, which is why he got crushed. His vulnerabilities in terms of technical boxing prowess were shown when nobodies like James "Quick" Tillis and Bonecrusher Smith gave him trouble (and of course Buster Douglas knocking out Mike Tyson).
And I agree that Roy Jones Jr. totally got shafted on this list. I'm also certain that if Jake LaMotta wasn't glorified in Raging Bull, he wouldn't receive half the recognition that he gets now. If never getting knocked down is worthy of such a high ranking, then why don't we see George Chuvalo on this list as well? |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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[ QUOTE ] Lennox Lewis Jersey Joe Walcott Willie Pep Floyd Patterson Rocky Graziano Max Baer Max Schmeling Jess Willard John Sullivan [/ QUOTE ] Except for Sullivan, any of those other guys in the top ten is a travesty I think. [/ QUOTE ] I think Willie Pep deserves top ten. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
The following were all ranked way too low IMO.
Roy Jones Jr. Carlos Monzon Pernell Whitaker Marvin Hagler |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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ESPN top 50 Boxers I want to comment but I really don't know where to start. This list is really, really bad. [/ QUOTE ] Oh sweet mary mother of the baby christ child, where in the name of our lord & savior is Bob Foster???????? LOL. And I do mean superultramega ZLOLZ. Worst sports list ever; in fact worst subjective listing of anything ever. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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[ QUOTE ] ESPN top 50 Boxers I want to comment but I really don't know where to start. This list is really, really bad. [/ QUOTE ] Oh sweet mary mother of the baby christ child, where in the name of our lord & savior is Bob Foster???????? LOL. And I do mean superultramega ZLOLZ. Worst sports list ever; in fact worst subjective listing of anything ever. [/ QUOTE ] Sheesh, I just read that one of the four main factors was dominance. No Foster, no Pryor, no Salvador Sanchez, and Monzon at 46. Yes, this clown is also using "Mainstream Appeal" as a fallback, but c'mon. You have to have some credibility. Some more random thoughts and then I gotta go drink my disgust away: Saddler beat Pep 3 outta 4, all by KO. I love Earnie Shavers, and I was happy to read an interview a few years ago that said he happy, healthy, and financially secure. He was the hardest puncher ever, but I don't think he belongs in the top 50. Sam Langford at 10? C'mon, don't try to be Mr. I Gotta Prove I Know All The UnknownZ. What about Harry Wills, Joe Jeanette, and Denver Ed Martin, Mr Expert? Speaking of Harry Wills, I think Jack Dempsey is the most overrated fighter, **who was still actually a great fighter**. Many people actually considered Duran's defense in his prime to be equal to his offense. He was the consensus "Fighter of the '70s", and between the first DeJesus fight & the second Leonard fight he never came close to losing, and he absolutely destroyed everyone in between, and usually came out w/o a mark on him. IMO you've got Robinson & Duran at their peaks (and they were long, strong peaks) and then there's everyone else, tho certainly Joe Louis is right there. It's been said many times that it's very hard to compare heavyweights in a pound-for-pound, due to the size & power differences. Certainly Ali is impossible to rank, as he missed 3.5 years of his prime. I know I've posted this many times before, but it's amazing to see what Tiger Woods' record would look like had he been banned from golf at the same age/length of time Ali was from boxing. No Aaron Pryor, jesus wept. I'm done. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
All the active or recently-active fighters are stuffed at the bottom of the list. Whitaker is the one who got shafted the worst. 44th all time.. laughable. Sadly the judges' decision losses that he didn't deserve probably hurt his ranking. I would have RJJ higher on the list also.
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Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
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Whitaker is the one who got shafted the worst. 44th all time.. laughable. Sadly the judges' decision losses that he didn't deserve probably hurt his ranking. [/ QUOTE ] There was a fight with Whitaker and Chavez several years ago and I really could not beleive the decision. It was a very Latino heavy audience very much in Chavez's corner and even they were booing the judge's decision in favor of Chavez. It was totally ridiculous and really po'ed me a got me off of watching boxing for a long time. I mean, Whitaker pummeled Chavez and Chavez was clearly over the hill and not capable of boxing a guy like Whitaker. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
Ring Magazine made a 80 best fighters of the last 80 years list back in 2002, which I think is much better.
Still think Dempsey is too high. As well as Lewis and I'm one of the people who think Tyson is too low actually. I don't think it's fair to punish him for defeats where he was clearly washed up. Yes Lewis knocked him out but so did Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride... [ QUOTE ] 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Muhammad Ali 4. Joe Louis 5. Roberto Duran 6. Willie Pep 7. Harry Greb 8. Benny Leonard 9. Sugar Ray Leonard 10. Pernell Whitaker 11. Carlos Monzon 12. Rocky Marciano 13. Ezzard Charles 14. Archie Moore 15. Sandy Saddler 16. Jack Dempsey 17. Marvin Hagler 18. Julio Cesar Chavez 19. Eder Jofre 20. Alexis Arguello 21. Barney Ross 22. Evander Holyfield 23. Ike Williams 24. Salvador Sanchez 25. George Foreman 26. Kid Gavilian 27. Larry Holmes 28. Mickey Walker 29. Ruben Olivares 30. Gene Tunney 31. Dick Tiger 32. Fighting Harada 33. Emile Griffith 34. Tony Canzoneri 35. Aaron Pryor 36. Pascual Perez 37. Miguel Canto 38. Manuel Ortiz 39. Charley Burley 40. Carmen Basilio 41. Michael Spinks 42. Joe Frazier 43. Khaosai Galaxy 44. Roy Jones Jr. 45. Tiger Flowers 46. Panama Al Brown 47. Kid Chocolate 48. Joe Brown 49. Tommy Loughran 50. Bernard Hopkins 51. Felix Trinidad 52. Jake LaMotta 53. Lennox Lewis 54. Wilfredo Gomez 55. Bob Foster 56. Jose Napoles 57. Billy Conn 58. Jimmy McLarnin 59. Pancho Villa 60. Carlos Ortiz 61. Bob Montgomery 62. Freddie Miller 63. Benny Lynch 64. Beau Jack 65. Azumah Nelson 66. Eusebio Pedroza 67. Thomas Hearns 68. Wilfred Benitez 69. Antonio Cervantes 70. Ricardo Lopez 71. Sonny Liston 72. Mike Tyson 73. Vicente Saldivar 74. Gene Fullmer 75. Oscar De La Hoya 76. Carlos Zarate 77. Marcel Cerdan 78. Flash Elorde 79. Mike McCallum 80. Harold Johnson [/ QUOTE ] Trinidad would probably be lower now and if Marco Antonio Barrera beats Marquez he is someone who should be included as well. He probably should no matter what. |
Re: ESPN top 50 Boxers
That is a good list. I do think Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. should be higher, though.
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