NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

At this point I only had about 15 hands on villian, so I think his stats are irrelevant. He didn't seem crazy.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($186.25)
UTG ($40.50)
UTG+1 ($55.95)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($105.85)</font>
MP2 ($84.80)
CO ($98.50)
<font color="#C00000">Button ($103.50)</font>
SB ($110.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($9.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, Button calls $8.

<font color="blue"> I'm assuming this is a standard raise here in position with the nut flush draw and two overcards. Is building the pot here bad? </font>

Turn: ($29.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $16</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $42</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $91.85</font>...

<font color="blue"> I bet $16 as a blocker to try and see a cheap river against an overpairish type hand. His raise was alarming so I'm thinking he has a set/two pair/AA/KK here most of the time. I pushed to get more money in the pot - my reasoning is that a heart on the river might not get me paid off. Also, by this point my Ace out might only be worth 1 at the most and my 9 is no good. The pot was big enough where I didn't really consider folding with my remaining outs, and I figured the times I hit my flush/gutshot I would make the additional $50ish in my stack that is left whereas I might not if a heart comes. Decent reasoning for a push? Do I have any other options here. I was thinking b/3bet was betting than a c/c or b/f c/f here. Am I way off? </font>

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Stacks arent that large where pushing is doing anything for you. He's not folding and you can save half your stack if you miss.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

So you are advocating just calling his raise then c/f if I miss and then betting if I hit?

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

What you did wasn't too bad you were commited after the turn bet. A check raise on the turn wouldn't be bad either. I like putting him to the decision for his chips personally.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

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So you are advocating just calling his raise then c/f if I miss and then betting if I hit?

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this line is much better. u can save 1/2 ur stack. and it effectively does the same thing cuz he will call almost all H rivers, and ur 6, and ur A. and u can c/f when u miss.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Yes. youll be betting 49 into a good pot. If you put him on a set, your just putting more money in bad.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Thanks for the responses - it didn't feel "right" to push there.

Is c/c the turn a better line than b/c? He called my flop c/r so he has something. Checking the turn might get me a free card, or at least not have to face a raise as I did.

Is c/c the turn better than betting (hoping he folds/calls) and calling a raise?

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

No, I would of bet the turn...maybe just a little more than half. IMO, all the rest of the hand was okay except the turn push.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

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No, I would of bet the turn...maybe just a little more than half. IMO, all the rest of the hand was okay except the turn push.

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+1. probably 20 on the turn

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

I don't get how you guys can justify betting the turn and not being committed for the rest of your stack.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

y would we need to be committed on our own? Its half our stack at thispoint and we dont have a hand. Nobody is advocating folding, just calling.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

I think you have to check/call the turn. You have a lot of outs but only 1 card to come you don't want the button to push on the turn.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

I would also check/call the turn. As played I would just call the turn though. Your push won't really force him into a decision, he's chipped in here. If a heart comes up you can push and he'll probably think that the probability that you are bluffing gives him the correct pot odds to come. If the gutshot comes, the same thing applies most likely.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

check/call the turn is bad IMO. It´s so transparent that you are drawing.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

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check/call the turn is bad IMO. It´s so transparent that you are drawing.

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Yeah, I think c/c is killing some of our action here when a heart comes, which is a bad reason to use this line.

Betting gives us a chance to take down the pot now, and since he raised small, I can call to see the river with my decent combo draw.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

I hate an all-in here and here's why:

A) you give yourself 2:1 odds to go to the river on an all in where your equity is like, what 25%-28%?
B) After a raise like that, villain doesn't fold.

I like c/c or c/r. I hate to get it in here when we're most likely behind with no fold equity.

[ QUOTE ]
heart on the river might not get me paid off

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And more likely than not, though, you'll lose your whole stack instead.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

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I think you have to check/call the turn. You have a lot of outs but only 1 card to come you don't want the button to push on the turn.

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Agreed. Even though this might not be a strong line, after villain calling flop reraise my thought is that leading is only building a pot where I'm behind and want to see a cheap river. Personally, I rather c/c here instead of using a blocking bet that could get reraised and push me off my hand.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

checking the flop is terrible. I don't know what to do on the turn because I am never checking this flop much less c/r it.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Why is checking the flop terrible? Please explain, I'm curious.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

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Why is checking the flop terrible? Please explain, I'm curious.

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b/c c/f with the nfd is a pretty bad decision made even worse by the fact that you're the aggressor preflop. c/c is bad because you've taken yourself out of the lead and might as well turn your hand face up. c/r is bad because if he 3bets you're behind the vast majority of the time and have to fold a decent holding. If it checks through and you bet a blank turn then he will only fold worse hands and call or raise better ones. If it checks through and you spring to life its basically impossible to get it in vs. anything, but a flush which you would have gotten it in against by betting the flop anyways. If it checks through and you check the turn then he is going to be able to take the pot away quite easily if he has a worse holding unless you plan on calling down A high, which is not such a good idea either. I think that covers basically all the scenarios. Basically, there is no good line to take if you check the flop, but there are a lot of good lines available to you if you bet the flop.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Thanks CDL, that was a very good explanation and it makes sense to me.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks CDL, that was a very good explanation and it makes sense to me.

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no problem

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Bet-three-bet the flop. That way you put the difficult decision to play for stacks on villain. This way you generate maximum fold equity whilst at the same time having plenty of outs of villain has a real hand or a hand he just can't lay down. Btw, if he 4-bet pushes the flop you are calling!

I think c/r'ing the nut draw with overs OOP is a bad play. All you do is build a pot where you have no control over the pot size and whether you can take a free card or not. You've now put yourself in the difficult position of not knowing whether to make a bet on the turn because you have missed and your chances of improving have now halved.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

Grunch.

I'm pretty sure you only have 7 outs. He has 87[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or a set. You're getting ~3.4 to 1 direct odds to call, and the implied odds make up for it. A set will call a value bet and if he has a flush he's not putting you on one. If the 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] show up on the river, can you fold? If not, maybe just fold now. Your push is folding nothing he's holding.

Re: NL 100: A9s raise in MP
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is checking the flop terrible? Please explain, I'm curious.

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b/c c/f with the nfd is a pretty bad decision made even worse by the fact that you're the aggressor preflop. c/c is bad because you've taken yourself out of the lead and might as well turn your hand face up. c/r is bad because if he 3bets you're behind the vast majority of the time and have to fold a decent holding. If it checks through and you bet a blank turn then he will only fold worse hands and call or raise better ones. If it checks through and you spring to life its basically impossible to get it in vs. anything, but a flush which you would have gotten it in against by betting the flop anyways. If it checks through and you check the turn then he is going to be able to take the pot away quite easily if he has a worse holding unless you plan on calling down A high, which is not such a good idea either. I think that covers basically all the scenarios. Basically, there is no good line to take if you check the flop, but there are a lot of good lines available to you if you bet the flop.

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Board: 8d 2h 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.476% 58.42% 00.06% 65929 67.50 { Ah9h }
Hand 1: 41.524% 41.46% 00.06%

I put Villain on overpair, set, any suited hearts(no A962), OESD and Hero is 58% to win + FE. How much should Hero 3 bet? (and calling a 4 bet shove).

Shove any turn if Villain calls 3 bet?