Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

Villain is "DontHassleTheHoff" or whatever, decent pretty tight/aggro reg in the 19/16 range. Preflop is something I do very rarely, but I will occasionally flat call big pairs here for various reasons. Anyways, given preflop how does my postflop line look? I didn't think this was a great board to raise the flop and get it in, and I felt like on the turn/river my only option was to call down at this point. Thoughts?

Party Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $483.30
CO: $400
Hero (BTN): $451.90
SB: $456.80
BB: $394.40

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $14</font>, Hero calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($34) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $24</font>, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($82) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $64</font>, Hero calls $64

River: ($210) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $154</font>, Hero calls $154

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

yeah, seems about right. Your hand is underrepped, etc etc. is the basis for the call.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

I think you can shove river.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

don't slow play don, he pays off light preflop.

as played easy call. and argument for shooving is possible, but i'd just call

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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I think you can shove river.

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Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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I think you can shove river.

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Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

Are we pushing river as a bluff? Cause I really don't like it as a value push. Unless OP's image is a bluff happy lagtard that has showndown atleast one bluff raise push on the river.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

We're obv pushing river as a bluff













not

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

That was a rhetorical question. Obv we're pushing it as a value push.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

wow. pushing the river would never cross my mind. call or even fold against some players.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

River push is gross. I like how you played the hand.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

if you're ok with pf then its played fine

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

Are you guys serious? He needs to have the best hand less than ~20% of the time if we shove. Do you think he gets away from lets say KK?

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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Are you guys serious? He needs to have the best hand less than ~20% of the time if we shove. Do you think he gets away from lets say KK?

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incorrect

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

How is that incorrect? That is the odds villain will be getting when we shove, isn't it? Problem is we are not doing so hot vs the range he valuebets here. So even if he calls with every overpair and J when we push, a call is still better.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

This is good. I think we're getting called by a better hand more than a worse hand if we shove. I like how you played it.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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How is that incorrect? That is the odds villain will be getting when we shove, isn't it? Problem is we are not doing so hot vs the range he valuebets here. So even if he calls with every overpair and J when we push, a call is still better.

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thats what everyone is arguing
and why i said the guy above was incorrect
maybe the hand itself will be +EV if he wins the hand 20%~ of the time but that doesn't make shoving better than calling

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

I doubt hes folding ANY hand he is valuebetting, I could be wrong tho.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

You may be right. But we are below 50% against the range he is valuebetting which makes a push bad even if he is. And if he bet/folds stuff like QJ it gets even worse.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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You may be right. But we are below 50% against the range he is valuebetting which makes a push bad even if he is. And if he bet/folds stuff like QJ it gets even worse.

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equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.672% 68.85% 00.82% 42 0.50 { AcAh }
Hand 1: 30.328% 29.51% 00.82% 18 0.50 { TT+, 88, AJs-ATs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, JTs, T9s, AJo-ATo, KJo, QJo }

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

I really doubt we're ahead of his calling range to a shove.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

He doesn't even have QJ or KJ here that often, and people are definitely capable of folding those (and QQ/KK) to a river push here.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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You may be right. But we are below 50% against the range he is valuebetting which makes a push bad even if he is. And if he bet/folds stuff like QJ it gets even worse.

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equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 69.672% 68.85% 00.82% 42 0.50 { AcAh }
Hand 1: 30.328% 29.51% 00.82% 18 0.50 { TT+, 88, AJs-ATs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, JTs, T9s, AJo-ATo, KJo, QJo }

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I am nittier than this dude and I'm def opening QTo/JTo/T9o/T8s, maybe T8o.

Board: Jd Th 8c 6d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.778% 52.22% 00.56% 47 0.50 { TT+, 88, AJs-ATs, KJs-KTs, QTs+, JTs, T8s+, AJo-ATo, KJo-KTo, QTo+, JTo, T8o+ }
Hand 1: 47.222% 46.67% 00.56% 42 0.50 { AcAh }

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

This is one of those spots where if you shoved the river with KQ or 9x people would say you're repping nothing so you'll get called super light, so why not shove when we have AA? I think he calls with alot of Js, and KK, QQ. Of course were are beat here some of the time but against an aggro player I think he'll value bet this river w/1 pair a decent amount. And he'll also be bluffing a fair percentage of the time.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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This is one of those spots where if you shoved the river with KQ or 9x people would say you're repping nothing so you'll get called super light, so why not shove when we have AA? I think he calls with alot of Js, and KK, QQ. Of course were are beat here some of the time but against an aggro player I think he'll value bet this river w/1 pair a decent amount. And he'll also be bluffing a fair percentage of the time.

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19/16 guy in a normal 2/4 game, this guy prob 3 barrels like 10 times a session. he doesnt have QJ or KJ or any J here at all to even think to call light with in the first place.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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[ QUOTE ]
This is one of those spots where if you shoved the river with KQ or 9x people would say you're repping nothing so you'll get called super light, so why not shove when we have AA? I think he calls with alot of Js, and KK, QQ. Of course were are beat here some of the time but against an aggro player I think he'll value bet this river w/1 pair a decent amount. And he'll also be bluffing a fair percentage of the time.

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19/16 guy in a normal 2/4 game, this guy prob 3 barrels like 10 times a session. he doesnt have QJ or KJ or any J here at all to even think to call light with in the first place.

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19/16 preflop numbers says absolutely nothing about how he plays postflop. AA is not calling light in this spot, Calling light would be KJ, QJ or J9. OP smooth called preflop, and flat called 2 streets, he has shown no strength whatsoever. Villain has to put OP on KJ at best, and would expect him to fold to a 3rd bet. I'm not saying villain is bluffing her a ton, but it's certainly in his range given OPs line. As is AJ and KJ and QQ, KK. He could also be betting QJ here trying to move villain off of splits and better Js. Which apparently will work alot of the time since people want to fold AA here.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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This is one of those spots where if you shoved the river with KQ or 9x people would say you're repping nothing so you'll get called super light, so why not shove when we have AA? I think he calls with alot of Js, and KK, QQ. Of course were are beat here some of the time but against an aggro player I think he'll value bet this river w/1 pair a decent amount. And he'll also be bluffing a fair percentage of the time.

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19/16 guy in a normal 2/4 game, this guy prob 3 barrels like 10 times a session. he doesnt have QJ or KJ or any J here at all to even think to call light with in the first place.

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Hoff def does 3 barrel more than this

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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This is one of those spots where if you shoved the river with KQ or 9x people would say you're repping nothing so you'll get called super light, so why not shove when we have AA? I think he calls with alot of Js, and KK, QQ. Of course were are beat here some of the time but against an aggro player I think he'll value bet this river w/1 pair a decent amount. And he'll also be bluffing a fair percentage of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

19/16 guy in a normal 2/4 game, this guy prob 3 barrels like 10 times a session. he doesnt have QJ or KJ or any J here at all to even think to call light with in the first place.

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Hoff def does 3 barrel more than this

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My notes for this guy#

"SOLID DOES NOT 3BARRELL"

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is one of those spots where if you shoved the river with KQ or 9x people would say you're repping nothing so you'll get called super light, so why not shove when we have AA? I think he calls with alot of Js, and KK, QQ. Of course were are beat here some of the time but against an aggro player I think he'll value bet this river w/1 pair a decent amount. And he'll also be bluffing a fair percentage of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

19/16 guy in a normal 2/4 game, this guy prob 3 barrels like 10 times a session. he doesnt have QJ or KJ or any J here at all to even think to call light with in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hoff def does 3 barrel more than this

[/ QUOTE ]

My notes for this guy#

"SOLID DOES NOT 3BARRELL"

[/ QUOTE ]

don will pay off with questionable holdings if you've established a LAG or semi LAG image.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

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I think you can shove river.

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Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

id raise the flop like everytime. its co vs button so you're going to get action from such a wide range of hands.
now id just call the river tho unless u have a laggy image, and even then its close.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

I like postflop. Preflop I hope you have good reasons for.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

Alright cool, looks like postflop is considered standard for the most part. Villain had T8o, lol.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

don't fold, but you can raise at basically any point here. I would have raised PF and prob again on the flop. sucks he snapped you.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

I like it.

Re: Slowplayed rawketz now I want to kill myself
 

I try to get it in on flop against most, but why the bump