3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $57.90
UTG+1: $15.45
Hero: $62.20
Button: $43.40
SB: $43.15
BB: $88.25

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $4.5</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($9.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $9</font>, BB calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($27.25, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero ....?

Villain is 36/17/1.2

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

pretty standard check behind and hit two pair on river. without a read of weakness

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

Check behind, fold river unless he bets very small. Also, why did you raise the flop, particulary that sized raise?

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

lol wtf are you doing. I know your image and he wont believe you much. If you like spewing you can bet turn, but it's probably a very bad idea, as is the flop raise btw. I like the pf call, but then putting so much money in with a losing hand agaisnt a guy who doesn't like to fold sucks.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

Yep. Should have raised flop for more, maybe $11.

I am raising because its a donk bet into me on the flop, which generally is weak, hence the raise should push him off a hand that missed the flop.

I check behind. River comes Ac and he bets $4 into the $27 pot.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol wtf are you doing. I know your image and he wont believe you much. If you like spewing you can bet turn, but it's probably a very bad idea, as is the flop raise btw. I like the pf call, but then putting so much money in with a losing hand agaisnt a guy who doesn't like to fold sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be surprised if he has taken my image into account at all during this hand. He likes to call so this means we must bet our edges. I believed on this flop my MP was ahead of his range, thus I raised...

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

What do you think his range is? I'd like to see a calculation. Also, I don't think that we should think of his flop bet as very weak, maybe he's just too stupid to make proper bets in relation to the pot and 3$ seems like much to him. I've seen many donks bet that way with acceptable hands.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

Hands that beat me that are in his range for near-min 3betting pre then donk betting flop like that:

AQ, JJ, TT, 99

Others that I am ahead of:

AK, AKs

Obviously my flop raise represents TP. His range for calling the raise is apparently the same as betting the flop though.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

If we check behind I think he will bet river with anything and we cannot fold or it would mean we give up as soon as he calls our raise on this flop...
Than why raise this flop? : I think we cannot make a profit on FE alone here unless we also bet (bluff) the turn. We'll probably make him throw away a heartdraw, JJ-, KQ, maybe even AQ sometimes.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

His AF is really low. I doubt he bets river just because someone checked behind on turn.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

Don't you think it must seem very suspicious to him that you raised the flop and then checked behind on the turn.

IMO he doesn't have to have a high AF to bet here... He'll just have to figure out you're weak, which isn't too hard in this case.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

So you...?

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Push turn

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

he didnt donk bet into you, he was the pf aggressor. i dont know if i prefer calling or raising the flop. if you're gonna raise i'd make it a little more.

as played i check turn and river, folding unless he bets tiny

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

By donk bet into me I meant 3 into a 9, my bad.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

I never raise flop in situations like this

whatever he has [censored] it, im keeping the pot small and probably folding to a medium sized bet on the turn

unless he minraises a lot pf then I play different

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

I do this once in a while (I'd raise to 10-11 though) but give up on the turn unimproved without better reads.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Push turn

[/ QUOTE ]


Mack, surely you mean, push turn now that we've got to where we are? Or would you advocate the entire line?

.........

If we call pre, I think we sometimes need to use position to make up some of our EV. So I would occasionally raise flop based on immediate game conditions: these 36/17 villains can get out of line and if it felt right I'd pop. For these purposes, I think $9 might get as many folds as $12. (We want him to fold, right?)

If this consideration doesn't appeal to me at the time, this is a small pot hand, we've kinda hit, so I call flop and either chk behind on turn or probably go with 2p+ if we hit (our 5 outer yeah!). Any further aggression from villain, I dust and think $7 isn't a disaster to have spent on the trip.

Re: 3bet 78s flop brings MPSK - What now? NL50
 

he has AK or a pair under Qs (though less likely)......bet. If you check it looks SO weak, he's going to bet the river no matter what almost all the time, and you can't call. If you decided to raise the flop to see where you're at, how can you c/c or c/f now?