Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Full Tilt Poker
$25/$50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
MP: $5044
CO: $5075
SB: $4525
BB: $6403
Hero (UTG): $6016

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($75, 5 players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $175</font>, MP folds, CO folds, SB folds, BB calls $125

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($375, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $300</font>, BB calls $300

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] ($975, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">River:</font> 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] ($975, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $900</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $3,100</font>

I've got some thoughts about this hand but I'll save them for later. What do you think, call or fold? Anyone bet turn?

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

I don't know what you should do, but I like Grim's line considering his reputation.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

fold grimstarr is passive and not so creative

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

hard one
question is what can U beat
KTs ? dont know grimstarr...
bluff ?

what hand would he check raise on river? i dont think any1 would play that way with boat or str8 (45s)
for me it looks like he has medim pair like 88-99, but still tough decision

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
hard one
question is what can U beat
KTs ? dont know grimstarr...
bluff ?

what hand would he check raise on river? i dont think any1 would play that way with boat or str8 (45s)
for me it looks like he has medim pair like 88-99, but still tough decision

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opposite day?

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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fold grimstarr is passive and not so creative

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so, 54?

maybe KQ?

i mean, he could have a set and whiff the turn CR and then go for the river CR, i guess.

i would fold too :/

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hard one
question is what can U beat
KTs ? dont know grimstarr...
bluff ?

what hand would he check raise on river? i dont think any1 would play that way with boat or str8 (45s)
for me it looks like he has medim pair like 88-99, but still tough decision

[/ QUOTE ]

opposite day?

[/ QUOTE ]

what U mean ?

sorry but my english isnt perfect

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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hard one
question is what can U beat
KTs ? dont know grimstarr...
bluff ?

what hand would he check raise on river? i dont think any1 would play that way with boat or str8 (45s)
for me it looks like he has medim pair like 88-99, but still tough decision

[/ QUOTE ]

opposite day?

[/ QUOTE ]

what U mean ?

sorry but my english isnt perfect

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make your time

move zig

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Your hand is a little underrepresented by your turn check and you even beat some checkraises all-in for value (don't know if Grimstarr would do that with qk). I don't like doing it, but I think the odds compell you to call.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Looks like 45 mostly, but if you look at heroes betting it looks like he could have nothing.

Continuation bet on flop after a pre-flop raise - his range is still wide

Check on turn - range hasnt changed from flop much, still wide

Bet pot after a check by villain - now his range is mainly closed to a K or air with something like AQ.

From grims perspective it looks as though hero could have missed and the K he thought hero had before becomes unlikely as the 2nd K hits on the river. This is reinforced by heroes check on the turn. So he goes for a big check-raise.

Only problem with check-raising air on river there is hero will mostly call as its an unconventional line and he'll get looked up. So stepping up a level, grim knows hero has a K and when the 2nd K hits on river, he checks knowing full well that hero is betting then check-raising pretty big knowing hero will call with his trips good kicker. So im putting him on 45

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

easiest call ever

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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easiest fold ever

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Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

I call here. I think we see Grimstarr bluffing here a lot or sometimes he even has a king with a weaker kicker.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

seems like an easy call to me having underrepresented your hand so much

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
seems like an easy call to me having underrepresented your hand so much

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wtf @ underrepping, it's not like even AK always bets this turn.

but, if we have AK, do we call this? if we call with AK I think we have to call with KJ. so it's a call. but I don't like it much.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

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"this" = trips OMG!!111??

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wtf @ underrepping, it's not like even AK always bets this turn.

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wtf indeed. Hero is repping exactly what he has.

btw, why the [censored] would Grimm raise a worse K for value? Isn't this boat/air (maybe AK)?

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

easy call. Doesn't look like you have trips.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Sweaters,

Can you please explain? Aren't most players checking a pair of kings on the turn here?

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

What is your history against Grimstarr? If Grimstarr thinks you will bet the river with AQ/AJ/77-QQ, then you have to call. If you are a huge nit and Grimstarr thinks your range is only AK/KQ/KJ then you should probably fold.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

easy call
people are giving grimm too much credit.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sweaters,

Can you please explain? Aren't most players checking a pair of kings on the turn here?

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not if they like to 2 barrel. Its a fine pot control play, but a default of checking a good king here is bad.

I think this is an easy call.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sweaters,

Can you please explain? Aren't most players checking a pair of kings on the turn here?

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I think the point is the line of fire at flop, check behind on the turn, fire at the river can be a huge range of hands. This could easily be any thing from a completely whiffed hand like 9Ts to a thinish value bet with something like TT to a strong made hand like AK, no? Given that, I think grim's range is pretty wide here and calling is clearly +EV.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Easy call.

Hero can be betting flop with any hand, and can be betting river with any hand that has no showdown value.

The only hand that makes sense for Hero is air or Kx, and grim prob puts Hero on air a large % of the time anyways.... so call.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Grim probably thinks that if the hero is betting the river, that hero has TT-AA and he knows he can't beat it. He doesn't put the hero on a king so he thinks he can move you off TT-AA.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

I dont think grimstarr would try to bluff you off a king, so I call.

James

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

lolopozzed yall

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

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where do u guys come from?

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

I would actually fold. Weird.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

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where do u guys come from?

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I actually very much agree with that comment. Also, wtf at people not betting good kings much on this turn? With my image I'm betting KJ there like 80% of the time.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

I havent played with Grim in awhile, but it seems pretty close. Lean towards a fold.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

A lot of people check the turn here. By checking the turn, you invite the tough river decision, at least in my experience, at least against a good player. The only upside to checking the turn is picking off a bluff/avoiding a CR, but he'll never make it easy on you at the end. I bet the turn. Makes it harder for him to play back with air.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

Thats one tough ass spot... he knows you cant fold a K there... can you? I would just flip a coin and call if its heads.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

true or false: when something is this close, it doesn't really matter what u do ?

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

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where do u guys come from?

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I actually very much agree with that comment. Also, wtf at people not betting good kings much on this turn? With my image I'm betting KJ there like 80% of the time.

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holla.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

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where do u guys come from?

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I actually very much agree with that comment. Also, wtf at people not betting good kings much on this turn? With my image I'm betting KJ there like 80% of the time.

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holla.

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w.e just trying to learn, thought I'd say what I think.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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I would actually fold. Weird.

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Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

as played i say fold. from grim's perspective i think he understands ur range here and would include strong k as a substantial part of ur range (esp with all these people saying turn check is understandable). thus the k on river is perfect card for him to check raise, and his raise is so strong he's gotta figure u for that hand and is taxing you with 45.

really you should bet the turn and not get into this situation.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

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He should b c/ring you all day if you fold this.

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where do u guys come from?

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I actually very much agree with that comment. Also, wtf at people not betting good kings much on this turn? With my image I'm betting KJ there like 80% of the time.

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I agree 100% here again.

Re: Grimstarr c/r\'s me on the river
 

lol fold. what do you think he has, 65 or a4?

-Mike

ps. I never fold