Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I am mostly an online player, or have been anyway. I have a micro stakes home game for friends, but it's for stakes that I don't care about. Recently I got invited to a .50/1 game, which, while probably super low for many, is a comfortable limit for me. The players are nice, it's a blast to play in, it's soft enough for me to beat, and playing in it has been the highlight of my week. Unfortunately, they are now going to introduce a rake (10% up to $3 max).

So here are my questions:

a) How bad is this rake? Is it high, or typical? They claim that most of the raked games around are 10% with a higher maximum for the same limit.

b) What level of risk do I assume playing in a raked game at micro stakes? In GA, even non-raked games are illegal so this is clearly over the line; however, at these stakes in a college town where there is plenty of worse stuff going down is there any reason for concern? I'm not the type to get out of line legally so this makes me a little uncomfortable, however I enjoy playing poker a lot and feel like a game of this type is probably waaay off the radar as far as getting me in trouble. If it matters, it seems there are also people who smoke pot in the game, though they do it out back, not actually in the game. Like I said, college town so not unusual.

c) Should the organization of the game be an issue for me? These guys don't seem very organized- they have different values for the colors each week, for example. This didn't really bother me so much before and I'm sure they are just figuring out stuff since it's a new game, but part of me find such irregularities a little uncomfortable if they are going to start charging to play. However, they DO seem to be providing a soft game that that I can beat, so I don't know that I should complain. I just don't know that I have full confidence in them should a dispute arise that they would be able to correctly and gracefully resolve it.

Anyway, I really enjoy playing live and have enjoyed this game, but I'm not sure it's for me. I'll be leaving the area in a couple months anyway (after which I hope to start my own, non-raked game), but I feel the experience of playing live is beneficial to a player like me who has only ever played online. Plus, it's just a lot of fun. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I guess I just want to know if this is the kind of game that could get me in trouble, or if this is just a standard/ fairly safe home game.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I play fairly regularly in a raked game. There are a few concerns you need to consider:

1.Legality - Since it's illegal to play ANY poker at all, not sure how much of a conern this is to you. However, I am sure the cops are much more interested in busting a raked game rather than a friendly one. If it does happen to get busted you will get a fine and not much else. The runners will be in much more trouble.

2. Safety - Because it's an illegal operation, then you have to rely upon yourself and the runners to provide security. A .50-1 game may not attract attention, but you never know. Robbers love to hit these types of games because the owners have no way to call the authorities. No one is calling the cops to report a robbery on an ILLEGAL game. So watch yourself.

3 The Game Runners - More than likely these are decent guys looking to make a buck. But it not out of the realm of possiblilty that they will fix the game in their favor. A good runner takes care of their players, deals an honest game and takes care not to invite negative types which are bound to cause trouble.

Like in all cases in life, just be aware. I have played in a illegal raked game for years now and have not witnessed a single act of violence, cheating (at least that I saw) or any trouble with the authorities. But I have certainly heard my fair share of scarey stories.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

The other issue to take into consideration is who is playing. If you have the same group of 10 guys playing eachtime, eventually the games will get short handed. When this happens, the house will win. 5 guys each with $200 in front of them puts $1000 on the table. Within 5 hours the table will only have $500 and the rest goes to rake. So, optimally, you want there to be lots of players to keep refreshing the chip supply before it gets eaten by the rake.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

The rake will hurt the game, so start looking for another one. It is not a very high rake, though they may rake $1 minimum, which would be high on a % basis in small pots. Are your average pots greater than $30? Probably not.

Also, raked games should provide free food and booze.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

sounds like these guys are just trying to make a buck (as stated above), have no idea what they are doing, are not providing anything for the rake (other than the game), and my bet is on the game will be very short-lived.

You are in the golden age of home games. A little inquiring in the right circles will open up all the games a well-mannered person could ever hope for. Just say goodbye to the rake, and find another 4 or 5 games to drop in on. Good luck.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, raked games should provide free food and booze.

[/ QUOTE ]FYI, I believe they will be providing food and booze, though I don't drink so it doesn't much matter to me.

However, the thing I like about this game is the location and time are just about perfect for me until I move in two months.

Thanks for the feedback so far- I really have no idea what to expect from home games. After having played online for a year and a half, I'm totally addicted to live play. Whatever I do about this game, I'm definitely going to try to get one going myself after we move [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
The other issue to take into consideration is who is playing. If you have the same group of 10 guys playing eachtime, eventually the games will get short handed. When this happens, the house will win. 5 guys each with $200 in front of them puts $1000 on the table. Within 5 hours the table will only have $500 and the rest goes to rake. So, optimally, you want there to be lots of players to keep refreshing the chip supply before it gets eaten by the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I agree that this is a potential issue, I just want to point out that you severly overstate the problem. Unless the game is incredibly wild with virtually every pot going over thirty dollars, its much more likely they'll take something in the vicinity of $190 off the table in five hours.

--Zetack

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I'm assuming they have a dealer.?.? Personally, there is no way I would participate in a raked game outside of a casino unless there were no other options.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I, too, hope they have a dealer.

I think you can play in this one until you find another, which shouldn't be difficult in a college town. I wouldn't bother with a raked home game -- too many to choose from.

We serve food and some soft drinks / alcohol, and we don't take a rake. We don't host home games very often, though.

If you really like it and don't care about the rake and just want the experience, keep playing. It's your money. You'll only be there for two more months.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming they have a dealer.?.?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, they have a dealer(s)- though they are completely untrained. Not that this matters too much- as long as they get the right cards out and ship the pots to the right person, I'm cool.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you really like it and don't care about the rake and just want the experience, keep playing. It's your money. You'll only be there for two more months.

[/ QUOTE ]This is kind of the attitude I'm taking. I just want to make sure I'm not putting myself in a bad spot, and it doesn't sound like I am. Just not an optimal spot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But an optimal spot isn't necessary if I'm only going to be around for just a few more weeks.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

im about to drop like 600$ on a table/chips/cards/chairs to host a weekly game (1/2 NL) and was considering taking a 1$ drop from all hands that see a flop to offset expenses.

there is no official dealer, and i would be providing soft drinks and snacks, byob.

is this an acceptable scenario, or would people be correct in bitching about it/avoiding the game?

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
im about to drop like 600$ on a table/chips/cards/chairs to host a weekly game (1/2 NL) and was considering taking a 1$ drop from all hands that see a flop to offset expenses.

there is no official dealer, and i would be providing soft drinks and snacks, byob.

is this an acceptable scenario, or would people be correct in bitching about it/avoiding the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something you should ask the people who play with you beforehand. Spending $600 and then saying, "I want you guys to pay me back," is more likely to cause a problem.

Instead ask them before you buy, "Hey, I'm thinking about buying $600 worth of stuff to host the game with, anyone mind if we take $1 from each pot over $x until we get to $600?"

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im about to drop like 600$ on a table/chips/cards/chairs to host a weekly game (1/2 NL) and was considering taking a 1$ drop from all hands that see a flop to offset expenses.

there is no official dealer, and i would be providing soft drinks and snacks, byob.

is this an acceptable scenario, or would people be correct in bitching about it/avoiding the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something you should ask the people who play with you beforehand. Spending $600 and then saying, "I want you guys to pay me back," is more likely to cause a problem.

Instead ask them before you buy, "Hey, I'm thinking about buying $600 worth of stuff to host the game with, anyone mind if we take $1 from each pot over $x until we get to $600?"

[/ QUOTE ]

solid advice, thanks.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

Here's my philosophy on the matter.

[censored] home gamers raking. Why?

1) All they have is low-quality poker chips they bought off Ebay for $50. Poker chips are a dime a dozen.

2) You could get in contact with all of the players at the game via myspace and start your own homegame. The money you made off them in 1 night would more than offset the cost of the chips.

3) [censored] 10% rake. That's absolutely ridiculous. ESPECIALLY given the stakes you're playing. Reasonable rake would be 5%, max .50 or $1. They would need to provide some service in exchange for the rake, like booze, food, and good dealing, plus providing an entertaining environment.

Here's a little psychology about getting your own "rake going. If you want to influence people to "pay for all the stuff I bought so they could play", I would politely ask that people tip you (the dealer) when they win big pots if they so choose. You'll notice the players themselves enforcing tipping by glaring at the people who don't tip. That way, you're not bullying people into paying, you're creating a social norm that it's "polite" to tip the guy who set up such a nice game for them.

-Mano

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

1.Legality - Since it's illegal to play ANY poker at all,.....

Brew,


I do not believe this is correct. It is definitely legal in the vast majority of states to play in a "friendly" game of poker. Basically, you are safe if their is no rake taken.

I have had two police officers in my local game, and they confirm this as well. (Colorado)

Debater

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is definitely legal in the vast majority of states to play in a "friendly" game of poker. Basically, you are safe if their is no rake taken.

[/ QUOTE ]This is not the case in GA, however, which is where this game is taking place. Home games are illegal, rake or no rake.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am mostly an online player, or have been anyway. I have a micro stakes home game for friends, but it's for stakes that I don't care about. Recently I got invited to a .50/1 game, which, while probably super low for many, is a comfortable limit for me. The players are nice, it's a blast to play in, it's soft enough for me to beat, and playing in it has been the highlight of my week. Unfortunately, they are now going to introduce a rake (10% up to $3 max).

So here are my questions:

a) How bad is this rake? Is it high, or typical? They claim that most of the raked games around are 10% with a higher maximum for the same limit.

b) What level of risk do I assume playing in a raked game at micro stakes? In GA, even non-raked games are illegal so this is clearly over the line; however, at these stakes in a college town where there is plenty of worse stuff going down is there any reason for concern? I'm not the type to get out of line legally so this makes me a little uncomfortable, however I enjoy playing poker a lot and feel like a game of this type is probably waaay off the radar as far as getting me in trouble. If it matters, it seems there are also people who smoke pot in the game, though they do it out back, not actually in the game. Like I said, college town so not unusual.

c) Should the organization of the game be an issue for me? These guys don't seem very organized- they have different values for the colors each week, for example. This didn't really bother me so much before and I'm sure they are just figuring out stuff since it's a new game, but part of me find such irregularities a little uncomfortable if they are going to start charging to play. However, they DO seem to be providing a soft game that that I can beat, so I don't know that I should complain. I just don't know that I have full confidence in them should a dispute arise that they would be able to correctly and gracefully resolve it.

Anyway, I really enjoy playing live and have enjoyed this game, but I'm not sure it's for me. I'll be leaving the area in a couple months anyway (after which I hope to start my own, non-raked game), but I feel the experience of playing live is beneficial to a player like me who has only ever played online. Plus, it's just a lot of fun. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I guess I just want to know if this is the kind of game that could get me in trouble, or if this is just a standard/ fairly safe home game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dump these losers...

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

The guy who runs my home game runs it very well. He has a beautiful table. Very nice room. Extremely nice cards and chips. He keeps it running smoothly, too. Self deal.

He has a "donations" jar to help pay for things. When I win, I just leave my extra few bucks -- anything that isn't easy to make change for. He never asks, I just do it. I think most players do. I never feel pressured to leave money, and I don't leave anything when I lose. This seems to work pretty well for everyone.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
im about to drop like 600$ on a table/chips/cards/chairs to host a weekly game (1/2 NL) and was considering taking a 1$ drop from all hands that see a flop to offset expenses.

there is no official dealer, and i would be providing soft drinks and snacks, byob.

is this an acceptable scenario, or would people be correct in bitching about it/avoiding the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

No way would I want to pay for your stuff. Maybe you'd like them to help cover a little of the mortgage and utilty expenses too..... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'd pay a small fee to play that covers food / drink, even a little extra tip when I win, but thats about it.

My home cash games are small, 9 or less, I provide decent food and all drinks and take only voluntary contributions. However my tournaments are big, 24-30 players. Again I provide all food and drink and I do charge a fee for this. Cost can run from $150-$200 and thats just too much for me to absorb every 6 weeks.

I made 3 poker tables, have 10 2-deck sets of Kems and Copags, 1600 custom designed poker chips, 24 folding chairs (need to borrow some when the tourney fills) tournament progam on laptop with AV projector and I would never think of making everyone pay for all that. And it was a lot more than what your thinking of spending. However, I travel with two of my tables to a game and the padded rail has suffered damage. I have taken money from the participants of this game to help offset some of the cost of replacing the rail. But I did this with their permission.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
im about to drop like 600$ on a table/chips/cards/chairs to host a weekly game (1/2 NL) and was considering taking a 1$ drop from all hands that see a flop to offset expenses.

there is no official dealer, and i would be providing soft drinks and snacks, byob.

is this an acceptable scenario, or would people be correct in bitching about it/avoiding the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

So who gets the table and chips after they are paided for?
Do you plan on drawing names out of the hat?

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

haha, i love that instead of saying "honestly i think its inappropriate to draw rake to offset expenses", i get responses that sound like they came from people who probably left the bed warm in their parents basement this morning.

first off, yes i get the message; rake at a home game is better left unpursued.

second off, some of the people who have home games out here literally have a picnic table in a garage, use plastic chips with no denominations on them (purchased with 'points' at any one of dozens of lower tier poker site stores ldo), and provide seating that the local AA meetings would have trouble justifying.

dropping 600$ to give people a place they *want* to play poker at, providing snacks, cleaning up their messes at the end of the night etc, certainly warrants having *some* form of reciprocation.

i think the tip jar is the best way to go, thanks.

ps:

[ QUOTE ]
So who gets the table and chips after they are paided for?

[/ QUOTE ]

HOF on so many levels.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I understand that home game poker with friends is legal, but OP said in his area it is not.

Also, the games I get into often get very crazy and it's not uncommon for the house to get half the action in one night.Rake plus tips adds up fast. I would not play there if they didn't have so many action gamblers that juice the pot when I hold a monster hand.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]


So who gets the table and chips after they are paided for?
Do you plan on drawing names out of the hat?

[/ QUOTE ]

The host does, if he/she contributed money to the expenses just like everyone else. Consider it the fee that players give the host, for NOT charging them to play the game (i.e. rake) and setup/cleanup/running it/recruiting/shopping, etc.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I'm not a fan of raking a game, especially if the underground card room owners are also playing in the games.

10% up to $3 is semi-reasonable, given the standards in casinos and such. It really depends what you're getting for that $6 or so an hour.

I'd rethink playing there, unless it's really REALLY soft. You may be able to beat it, but it will bleed the weaker players dry and the game along with it, unless there's a LARGE pool of potential players.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a fan of raking a game, especially if the underground card room owners are also playing in the games.

10% up to $3 is semi-reasonable, given the standards in casinos and such. It really depends what you're getting for that $6 or so an hour.

I'd rethink playing there, unless it's really REALLY soft. You may be able to beat it, but it will bleed the weaker players dry and the game along with it, unless there's a LARGE pool of potential players.

[/ QUOTE ]

the absolute limit i would consider raking off ANY pot is 1$. by the end of the night, that would probably come to a total of 80-100$, half of which would used to pay for food with the remaining 40-60$ going to pay for the trouble of keeping the game going, cleaning up, keeping track of everyones money, and generally letting 8 degens [censored] around my living room.

i really dont see why so many people find this to be such a distasteful scenario, especially when other people in our circle of players generally want a 10$ donation from everyone who shows up...

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
haha, i love that instead of saying "honestly i think its inappropriate to draw rake to offset expenses", i get responses that sound like they came from people who probably left the bed warm in their parents basement this morning.

first off, yes i get the message; rake at a home game is better left unpursued.

second off, some of the people who have home games out here literally have a picnic table in a garage, use plastic chips with no denominations on them (purchased with 'points' at any one of dozens of lower tier poker site stores ldo), and provide seating that the local AA meetings would have trouble justifying.

dropping 600$ to give people a place they *want* to play poker at, providing snacks, cleaning up their messes at the end of the night etc, certainly warrants having *some* form of reciprocation.

i think the tip jar is the best way to go, thanks.

ps:

[ QUOTE ]
So who gets the table and chips after they are paided for?

[/ QUOTE ]

HOF on so many levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

So to look at this another way, if you invite people over to drink, eat your snacks and hang around your house you want to collect money for that?

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
So to look at this another way, if you invite people over to drink, eat your snacks and hang around your house you want to collect money for that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there's two OTHER ways to look at it:

We're all not as independantly wealthy as you are, since you can afford to host parties 20-30 times a year

or....

Will you pay for me and a dozen people to come over and take your money..... twice in one night?

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
haha, i love that instead of saying "honestly i think its inappropriate to draw rake to offset expenses", i get responses that sound like they came from people who probably left the bed warm in their parents basement this morning.

first off, yes i get the message; rake at a home game is better left unpursued.

second off, some of the people who have home games out here literally have a picnic table in a garage, use plastic chips with no denominations on them (purchased with 'points' at any one of dozens of lower tier poker site stores ldo), and provide seating that the local AA meetings would have trouble justifying.

dropping 600$ to give people a place they *want* to play poker at, providing snacks, cleaning up their messes at the end of the night etc, certainly warrants having *some* form of reciprocation.

i think the tip jar is the best way to go, thanks.

ps:

[ QUOTE ]
So who gets the table and chips after they are paided for?

[/ QUOTE ]

HOF on so many levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

So to look at this another way, if you invite people over to drink, eat your snacks and hang around your house you want to collect money for that?

[/ QUOTE ]

if they have vaginas, loose morals, and low self esteems, its on me.

otherwise, i dont know what type of parties youre into dude but in my house, 10 half drunk dudes with questionable hygiene do *not* ride for free.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

i remember going to a home game with a friend of a friend...2am, our game broke up, and dude asked if i wanted to go..

we get there, and 8 people are playing, seemed like a decent game. i sit down, first hand, i see KK. long story short, i won a large-ish pot when the turn brought me trips..

so as i'm collecting the chips, the guy whose house it was informed me of the 'house rake'. i kinda shrugged, right up until i see him taking a $5 chip out of the pot, and stacking it onto his stack...

wtf?

not wanting to be the new-guy [censored], but curious, i asked him about it. he said that he rakes every pot 10%, regardless of how big it is, and seeing how the rake was going to him anyway, he just puts it into his stack, 'nobody's ever had a problem before'.

pissed off the guy i came with something major, but i immediately asked to cash out.

bru-haha ensues. 10 people in a room arguing. regulars start to question host after i do. host offers not to put rake directly into his stack, but is still being an ass about it, saying, 'i'm gonna get it anyway, maybe this way it'll ensure i can't lose it back' etc, etc.

last thing i remember saying before leaving was something along the lines of, 'you know you guys can NEVER beat this game, right? and the only person that can possibly win long-term is him??'

2 weeks later, the kid i followed there told me that the game broke up 10 minutes after i left. seems that most of them haven't played long, and didn't realize how bad they had it.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I think I'll agree to disagree. Different cities, different countries, different players and different standards.

My little game I guess with 8-9 players is BYOB and none of us are big on snacks. It runs from 7:30 untill about 11. I built my poker table years ago and consider it a piece of the household furniture. I had purchased 4 fold up chairs 4-5 years ago and aswell, use some extra chairs from around the house. I have a decent set of 1000 poker chips, 13.5 gram. The only possible expense I can think of is cards but every few weeks some brings in a few decks. Our decks last 2 games tops.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

10% rake = shenanigans.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
10% rake = shenanigans.

[/ QUOTE ]Even with a $3 cap?

I am curious because 10% sounds high, but I think $3 is a pretty small cap, right?

Honestly, I don't know because I mostly play online and don't pay attention to the rake very much.

FWIW, I did go back to the game and they didn't start taking a rake yet- it is a very profitable game though, and they have multiple players throughout the night and are able to keep a pretty full table even after people bust and leave.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

it really depends 100% on the limits being played imo, but my game is 1/2 NL usually. if i do elect to implement a rake, it will be 1$ on all pots that see a flop, regardless of the size of it.

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'll agree to disagree. Different cities, different countries, different players and different standards.

My little game I guess with 8-9 players is BYOB and none of us are big on snacks. It runs from 7:30 untill about 11. I built my poker table years ago and consider it a piece of the household furniture. I had purchased 4 fold up chairs 4-5 years ago and aswell, use some extra chairs from around the house. I have a decent set of 1000 poker chips, 13.5 gram. The only possible expense I can think of is cards but every few weeks some brings in a few decks. Our decks last 2 games tops.

[/ QUOTE ]

And at that level, I can agree with you since everyone kicks in.

My game, the expenses run betwen $50-$150 a game, so I'm not going to be the ONLY one eating a rake...

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is definitely legal in the vast majority of states to play in a "friendly" game of poker. Basically, you are safe if their is no rake taken.

[/ QUOTE ]This is not the case in GA, however, which is where this game is taking place. Home games are illegal, rake or no rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

No poker and No BJ's Georgia Sucks is there any reason at all you still live there ??????????

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

[ QUOTE ]
No poker and No BJ's Georgia Sucks is there any reason at all you still live there ??????????

[/ QUOTE ]Job, which is more important than poker, believe it or not [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Home Game Introduces Rake- I have Concerns
 

I wouldn't pay a rake in a home game. I think it's pretty ridiculous.

I host a bi-weekly home game. Some of the other guys will also host the same basic group on occassion. It's byob although sometimes I will share my bourbon and buy a few bags of chips. It's not some absurd expense.

I spent probably close to $1,000 on awesome chips, good cards, chairs etc. but that's my own property which I will always have and those things give me pleasure. I would think it arrogant to expect someone else to pay for them.

If I'm paying a rake, I'd be expecting to be in a card club or a full on casino. One of the nice things about homegames is thier relaxed atmosphere, I feel a rake makes it a business operation.

This said, when I regularly attend a home game with a gracious host, I will often offer to chip in for snacks and have brought the host small gifts of appreciation for being kind enough to invite me into his house. i.e. I gave a buddy of mine a setup of Copags for the game. It's hardly a big deal.