big pot versus super lag live
 

10/20 NL
Hero has 5K, villain covers

villain is big korean gambler, he plays nuts and air the same. hero has been playing semi LAG, but we have big pot history.

Hero has AdKd
1 limper, hero in MP makes it 100, CO calls, button calls, villain in BB makes it 400, EP limper folds, Hero calls, others fold

Flop:
6d 3d 6s
Villain bets 500, Hero makes it 1900, at this point villain kind of stares at me, mumbles something, counts his 100 dollar bills and then calls. doesn't necessarily seem like a slow roll.

Turn: Kc
villain checks, Hero checks

River: 8 c
villain looks at board, then me and quickly goes all in, hero calls

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

Umm, easiest call ever?

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

88 good, bet the turn lololol

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

I like the way you played this.....nh.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

ummm yeah it's fine.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

yea i was thnking tank for 11.5 seconds and shove turn

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

I'm always a little reluctant to stack off with just top pair but against this villian probably a good call. What was your thinking on the turn? I don't particularly like this play as your raise on the flop will almost certainly kill your action if the river was dimond if he has any skill.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

dlpnyc enters his minimalist phase?

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

Why did you check the turn? If he had a naked 6 or a decent overpair (such as JJ), wouldn't he be reraising the flop to protect his hand and win a nice pot right there? My guess is that unless he flopped a full house or quads, he has overcards (such as AK or AQ), and is waiting to see if he can take the pot with a check-raise on the turn. Once you pair the king on the turn, you are in a good position to reraise all-in if necessary (assuming you are willing to play with your whole stack for a TPTK hand against this particular opponent).

So, against this villain, I guess I would have bet hard on the turn.


TK

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

i checked the turn because he would probably put me on a flush draw or some weak pocket pair (more likely a pp imo), so i figured he would fire a big one on the river if a diamond didn't fall and was praying TPTK would be good. With the stack sizes and pot size, on the turn, i wouldnt get any action with an all in (the only reasonable bet) without him having a better hand unless he made a hero call with 99-QQ.
I include details about how the villain acts because it makes it more interesting and live players can usually pick something up based on how they react.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

LA,

His putting you on a flush draw makes sense, but not a weak pocket-pair.

Once you called his reraise preflop and then raised him hard on the flop, he can't be thinking you are holding 33 or something. So, the worst he can think you are holding is TT or JJ, A6 (suited), or a big flush draw. By not betting the turn, you are allowing him a free shot at making a better hand on the river, and denying yourself the chance to either win a nice pot right there, or get extra money in if a diamond should hit the river.

Thus, in a rare case of treating a hold 'em hand like a stud hand, this is a situation where if you think you have the best hand, you probably should be betting it.


TK

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

looks good to me on all streets

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

i dont tank at all i snap shove turn as fast as i can.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont tank at all i snap shove turn as fast as i can.

[/ QUOTE ]

easily the best reply to this thread (.)

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

got to reraise the turn, no other logical choice.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

I like how you played it especially if he like to bluff/bet at perceived weakness.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

so what did he have?

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

after i called, he held his hand to muck and said your good, i flipped over my hand and he folded. my turn play is key, i figure if i bet out he would have folded at that point. by checking behind, he bluffed at my 'weak' turn play. i wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand like AQss or a medium pocket pair.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

[ QUOTE ]
after i called, he held his hand to muck and said your good, i flipped over my hand and he folded. my turn play is key, i figure if i bet out he would have folded at that point. by checking behind, he bluffed at my 'weak' turn play. i wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand like AQss or a medium pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a very standard live check for me, almost everytime. Online people always bet? Just different I guess, anyways, nice hand well played.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

the dynamic i think is probably a lot different online because there's a lot more regular bluffing and semibluffing that goes on online, whereas in live, 3-betting and playing mad aggro probably isn't as pervasive a part of the game so balancing turn shove frequencies and handranges isn't really much of a concern and people tend to think more in terms of maximizing a single hand EV

it might also be because when playing 20 hands an hour, it's a lot harder to think about long-term EV maximization since the long-term EV will take a few weeks to get that situation to pay itself off, whereas online you may get the same kind of situation multiple times in a session where it pays off with much closer proximity to the immediate-EV decision.

but i never play live so i really have no idea!

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

There are no scare cards that could possibly hit the river. Thats why I like a check on the turn for pot control and deception. Villain isnt going to hit a 2 outter on the river here enough times for the turn check not to be profitable.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

OP and others,

Do you play the hand any differently if the turn is an Ace?

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

You check on the turn because the chances of him calling off his stack on the turn with something you beat<<<<<<<<<the chances of him shoving on river with something you beat. The only downside is obv the free card but you still chose a much better option IMO.

Re: big pot versus super lag live
 

Any1 bet the turn here?