3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

i have him 16/11 after just over 100 hands...might not be accurate but he's probably tight. pretty sure he's decent because he coaches iirc.

could he do this with a draw? is turn worth peeling if i shove any straight or diamond river when checked to?

river seems pretty standard he's only ever folding if he had a draw.

Poker Stars, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $832
UTG: $609
CO: $686
Hero (BTN): $1,033.95
SB: $399

Pre-Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $18</font>, Hero calls $18, 2 folds

Flop: ($45) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $30</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $95</font>, CO calls $65

Turn: ($235) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $162</font>, Hero calls $162

River: ($559) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

Dump the flop/Dump the turn

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

even as played on the flop i'd fold the turn... his line basically looks like "well let's see if any draws get there on the turn before i commit". imo, the only thing that slowed him down on the river is the fact that the top card paired, but i feel like he's gonna check/call w/ like an overpair here.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

shove or fold turn

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

flop is fine but I fold the turn

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

I don't think I've ever seen a draw take that line. I really dislike the turn call. Shove or fold seems much better. His hand looks so much like a jack.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

shove river

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
shove river

[/ QUOTE ]

neg. way too many draws missed, and hero probably doesn't take flop line with a draw.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
flop is fine but I fold the turn

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Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

You have to shove river after calling turn

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

bad bad bad turn call, either raise or fold. ppl hardly ever bet/fold here in my experience, so i would fold.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

Wow fold the turn fast. People who are saying you have to shove here are right in theory, but I don't think he's folding if you do.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

i think river should would be spew

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have to shove river after calling turn

[/ QUOTE ]

calling turn does not make a river shove +EV. i mean if you think shoving river makes $ long run then shove, but you seem to be implying that you can't give up now or whatever, which just isn't the case. it's like just bc you spew once doesn't mean you have to twice.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
shove river

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

i think i'm pretty credible for a flush draw here, and if i make a straight on the river i should definitely get paid. anyone disagree? if not is calling the turn still that bad?

if i were going to shove or fold turn i'd fold, i don't really think he's getting fancy with a draw like this.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
shove river

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you lose when you check......But you lose more when you shove here I think. This is why you should be folding the turn here.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

the whole lfush draw thing doesn't work all that well for you since a lot of the time even if a flush card hits, he shoves the river anyway, giving you no opportunity to bluff it. furthermore, even if it does come and you try to rep it, he may just be like "oh [censored] it i don't think a solid reg would call the turn with just a flushdraw, i cawl."

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

also, you can already be drawing dead (well, to a chop) to 78

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
also, you can already be drawing dead (well, to a chop) to 78

[/ QUOTE ]

not likely in his preflop range even if my stats are a little off.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to shove river after calling turn

[/ QUOTE ]

calling turn does not make a river shove +EV. i mean if you think shoving river makes $ long run then shove, but you seem to be implying that you can't give up now or whatever, which just isn't the case. it's like just bc you spew once doesn't mean you have to twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

If shoving and checking have the same EV you should shove, but how much lower can your shove EV be than your check EV and still do it that is my question

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to shove river after calling turn

[/ QUOTE ]

calling turn does not make a river shove +EV. i mean if you think shoving river makes $ long run then shove, but you seem to be implying that you can't give up now or whatever, which just isn't the case. it's like just bc you spew once doesn't mean you have to twice.

[/ QUOTE ]

If shoving and checking have the same EV you should shove, but how much lower can your shove EV be than your check EV and still do it that is my question

[/ QUOTE ]

just because you make an image move doesnt mean it will be +EV in the future. it depends on how you and the villain use the information in future plays... he could easily outhink your image play.

Re: 3/6 bluff flop then turn a draw vs. ja blue
 

[ QUOTE ]
shove river

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT.

Every time I don't shove here, I end up tilting looking at his hand.