Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

villian 1 is on a huge rush flopping nuts every hand...he is raising a fair number of hands preflop and generally slows down postflop (likes continuing)...villian 2 is playing relatively tight solid, although is capable of making moves...villian 1 starts hand with 30k, hero has 20k and villian 2 has 20k...hero's image is loose aggressive...

villain 1 raises UTG to 400, hero calls with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and villian 3 calls on button...3 to the flop...

(pot 1350) Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

villian 1 continues for 700, hero calls, and villian 3 thinks and calls...

(pot 3450) turn is Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]...villian 1 checks, hero bets 2100, villian 3 calls, and villian 1 folds...

(pot 7650) river is 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]...hero thinks for 30 secoinds and bets 5500...

looking for thoughts on every street, but mostly the river...

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

I think I would check the river. He may take a shot with busted clubs and will definitely bet a worse queen for you.

What are you doing if he raises?

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

The spelling is \"villain\".

Anyways, what happened to villain 2? You must be referring to him as villain 3 throughout the hand. Seems fine, what are your thoughts if he say, shoves this river on you?

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

I think you played the hand as optimal as possible.

I don't think you can really check the river. It's not a board I would want to be check-raising the river with. And if you check the river, you are hoping to check-raise.

I think you just have to bet the 5500 and obviously fold to a raise.

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

i don't think he was advocating c/r

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

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i don't think he was advocating c/r

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Then why would he make this post? What is he advocating? Check-folding? lol

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

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i don't think he was advocating c/r

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Then why would he make this post? What is he advocating? Check-folding? lol

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uhh c/c perhaps

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

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i don't think he was advocating c/r

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Then why would he make this post? What is he advocating? Check-folding? lol

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are u retarded

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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i don't think he was advocating c/r

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Then why would he make this post? What is he advocating? Check-folding? lol

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uhh c/c perhaps

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ya, duh. i think it's close between c/c and b/f. i'd probably lean towards c/c, though.

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

I mean, it seems highly unlikely that someone could flat-call the flop and turn with a set or straight on that board. So that leaves clubs, AQ, KQ, QJ, and Q10. If you bet he will (probably) call with the queens and fold the clubs, but if you check he may hang himself. Plus you save money/avoid a tough decision when he shows up with the AQ or weirdly played set/straight.

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

I think flop is a fold, given depth of stacks, poor texture of flop, and awful relative position sandwiched between bettor and another active player. That was a perfect turn, but most are gonna make you even less comfortable. Don't really see a reason to get involved on that flop.

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

c/c river IMO... its a bad river card for villain to try to raise-bluff with so I think that checking the river results in the most value from a possible stubborn bluff with busted clubs. Plus, I feel like he is vbetting any Q in this spot (whereas he may make a smart fold to your bet) and maybe 9s-Js.

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

I'd check-call river

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, it seems highly unlikely that someone could flat-call the flop and turn with a set or straight on that board. So that leaves clubs, AQ, KQ, QJ, and Q10. If you bet he will (probably) call with the queens and fold the clubs, but if you check he may hang himself. Plus you save money/avoid a tough decision when he shows up with the AQ or weirdly played set/straight.

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how do you save money if you are bet folding?
its the same...it comes down to villains range and how often he bluffs clubs

the EV of a b/f vs a c/c is the same against a range that has us beat

anyway i like c/c bc of the clubs

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

How fast did villain 2 call turn, you should start trying to narrow his range ASAP after he overcalls flop.

I bet closer to $2750 on turn, and I like the river as played. He is going to have AQ, KQ, QJ and QT a lot here, all of which he will call a bet with, but also bet if checked to. However, he might even call with hands that he would not bet like 98, A9 etc.

In addition, I would fold to a raise, but I feel like that is pretty basic and obvious.

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

i think this is a clear check call.....bet fold isnt horrible but check calling is MUCH better imho

i doubt villain is checking behind a queen, so your getting value from the queens u beat, and i doubt he calls ur river bet with anything but a queen or better. Let him at least try and bluff a busted draw or something, unless villian pays off with worse then a queen, and given flop texture, and villain description these seems unliekly im checking and happily calling any reasoanble bet here like always.....

if i did bet, i would fold if raised , and i dont think its that close

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

check first then call when he bets

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

onceupon, gtfo

Re: Live NYC 50/100 Trips
 

i don't like leading river without a read since villain's range is likely missed draws and strong hands like JT or boats. i prefer check calling without a read. the only exception is if you can reliably distinguish situations where villain bluff raises.