i\'m a huge calling station
 

i have some 40 hands on the villains but they are meaningless because the game was 3 and 4 handed for while. so for example 60/30 doesn't necessarily mean the villain is a maniac. from the stats and observing the players i could gather that the button is a lag or a tag and the bb is passive and possibly loose. i felt kind of silly just calling throughout the hand, any suggestions?

5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9.67SB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.33BB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9.33BB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12.33BB

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

I'll cap the preflop(edit) - especially because I want to punish BB for limping along with probably trash.

Then i'll bet the flop because there could be a ton of draws outthere. Button could have AK or KQ or even AA or KK, but he knows that we don't have AK(we would cap that right) so he may fire at us with his draws. If he does we could call and fire a blank turn.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

vs a relatively unknown
i like how you played it
just be sure to take note of
what button fired the river with

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

Saikkonen u talked about preflop right?

And yes, Cap that Preflop. Even IF button is tight(not AA,KK only, but more tight than laggy) u can still Cap very light because of BB.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

Hey I'm rusty and haven't played in a bit, but I probably would've just check/raised the flop, if not I'd rather put a donk in on the turn or river to avoid handing out free cards.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

i think you should raise/fold the river

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think you should raise/fold the river

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a big mistake imo. I can't see JJ vbetting the river with 2 callers and calling a raise 3 way and a hand like QJ is unlikely. Btn has very often a king, AA or a set.

We can c/r the flop imo. With the backdoors, we have a small edge against BTN and BB is very often behind. Moreover if btn 3 bet the flop we can make a good laydown on the river.

Nice to see you again Sharpie.

Edit: If Btn 3 bet the flop, I fold the turn UI. The pot is protected, we have too often 0 or 2 outs.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think you should raise/fold the river

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a big mistake imo. I can't see JJ vbetting the river with 2 callers and calling a raise 3 way and a hand like QJ is unlikely. Btn has very often a king, AA or a set.

We can c/r the flop imo. With the backdoors, we have a small edge against BTN and BB is very often behind. Moreover if btn 3 bet the flop we can make a good laydown on the river.

Nice to see you again Sharpie.

[/ QUOTE ]


inside joke [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

b/f river maybe? I like that line. He's not raising you with &lt; trips, and he probably isn't vbetting JJ, but might call. Also a small, non-zero chance he folds AA.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], I'm too naive. It was strange from the expert of c/c and c/f. As played it is tough to fold the river, you would have fold the turn ?

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

capping pf is good, although I certainly don't think there is anything too wrong with just calling. You probably only have a slight equity edge 3-way, and I don't think you are giving up too much by not pushing it.

I like how you played it postflop. If I didn't cap pf I would probably just c/c down as you did. If I capped pre I probably b/c the flop and call down because I tend to be suspicious of guys playing 60/30 even 5-handed.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also a small, non-zero chance he folds AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] misclick ?

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
b/f river maybe? I like that line. He's not raising you with &lt; trips, and he probably isn't vbetting JJ, but might call. Also a small, non-zero chance he folds AA.

[/ QUOTE ]


I like your thought process about betting to get $$$ when you are ahead, but, no one has ever folded AA in their life here. It's just not going to happen

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

Right, i'm not expecting them to fold it, but there is a very finite (minute) chance they will. B/f'ing merely: a) prevents us from having to overcall the river (which is my only real problem with this hand) and b) commits the same ammount of money to the pot. People also tend to pay me off on the river with 2nd pair and worse after seeing me bet this river.

Edited for miles' satisfaction

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

did you mean minute instead of finite? saying "very finite" is weird.

and the % is so close to zero it doesn't strengthen the argument for betting.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right, i'm not expecting them to fold it, but there is a very finite chance they will. B/f'ing merely: a) prevents us from having to overcall the river (which is my only real problem with this hand) and b) commits the same ammount of money to the pot. People also tend to pay me off on the river with 2nd pair and worse after seeing me bet this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are we worried about overcalling? what can the BB have here that ever beats us? The fact that he CC two in the BB likely tells me that he is horrible, and if he had a K he would 100% have raised at some point in the hand. This overcall makes us money because this guy is calling down with J9 or TT or something and we are more likely to win 2BB on the river by getting him to SD his crap than we are by donking out and getting 2 calls.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right, i'm not expecting them to fold it, but there is a very finite chance they will. B/f'ing merely: a) prevents us from having to overcall the river (which is my only real problem with this hand) and b) commits the same ammount of money to the pot. People also tend to pay me off on the river with 2nd pair and worse after seeing me bet this river.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are we worried about overcalling? what can the BB have here that ever beats us? The fact that he CC two in the BB likely tells me that he is horrible, and if he had a K he would 100% have raised at some point in the hand. This overcall makes us money because this guy is calling down with J9 or TT or something and we are more likely to win 2BB on the river by getting him to SD his crap than we are by donking out and getting 2 calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is exactly why donking the river is bad
we dont want bb to fold but with
us acting behind him he will be more likely to call
with a weaker pair unsure if we'll even call
but if we decided to fire out on the river
we may convince him to now fold his weaker pair

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

rzk,
i think you can set up your HUD to display AP (average players). Then the stats are easy to interpret.

As for the hand, you lose here a lot but this is def the best way to play it imo. Everything is standard (with possible exception of pf, but we need more precise stats to make that decision) until the river.

As for the river, RE: the button, this is a rare case where if you donk you can expect to be called with just about the same range that will bet when checked to.

RE: the BB, i suspect he is somewhat more likely to call a river bet with a weak hand (hoping to catch a dumb bluff?) if button bets. If you donk he'll be feeling a little caught in the midddle and may dump an extra hand or two.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

just for kicks, bb won the hand with KJo, button had KTo.

btw, i think it's good to sometimes post what the villain(s) had after people discuss the hand, provided that:

1. there's no selection bias, i.e. you would have posted the hand regardless of what the villain(s) had.

2. people here are mature enough as poker players to understand that if there is an argument about the best move, revealing a specific hand doesn't lend more support to either side.

Re: i\'m a huge calling station
 

you have to becarefull with overcalling in these spots I have it often enough that the board has a overcard to my pair and one dude is just calling all the way, I started folding rivers like that and it saves me monies