Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Any science-buffs care to comment on this?

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Jones detailed his lab experiments in which he attempted to replicate NIST's conclusion that the lava like orange material flowing out of the south tower is aluminum from Flight 175, the plane that hit the building. Jones clearly documents the fact that liquid aluminum is silver and not orange as is seen in the video of the south tower, therefore the material cannot be aluminum. Jones then explains that the material is in fact a compound that can cut through steel like a hot knife through butter, thermite with sulphur added to make thermate.

The crux of the fresh evidence revolves around newly uncovered globules or spheres that were discovered at the WTC site that Professor Jones was able to obtain and run a electron microscope analysis on.

The spheres contained iron and aluminum, which would be expected in any steel sample, but also sulphur which is a by-product of a thermate reaction.

Video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...08807350233932


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...demolition.htm


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The important bit is at 48 minutes.



If you don't want to talk science, take your cynicism elsewhere.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

I'll be interested to see where this goes, but am not qualified to give an intelligent commentary on the evidence per se. My confession: I take the fact that the majority of scientists see no problem with what happened as evidence that what happened is physically possible. I don't believe we live in a country of 10's of thousands of metalurgists, all of whom actually KNOW that "fire can't melt steel", but only 2 of whom are willing to mention that publicly. I don't believe we live in a country where the leaders are devious enough to construct such an elaborate plot, actually fly jets in to buildings, but the plot is so stupid that they need to add thermite. I don't believe we live in a country where 100's of people would give testimony that supports some secret government lie. I guess what I'm saying is: any notion of conspiracy is so grotesquely absurd, so arrantly false, and so pathetic, that you are going to need a lot more than something like this to even get anyone half-way intelligent to give this a second thought. It shocks me the abilities that some people ascribe to our leaders.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Nielso,

What % confidence do you have that the towers were brought down with explosives and not by the airplanes?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Nielso,

What % confidence do you have that the towers were brought down with explosives and not by the airplanes?

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ATM there is no such sequential mechanism theory that 'airplanes brought down the towers'; so it's pretty hard to get behind non-existent scientific theories.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Jones clearly documents the fact that liquid aluminum is silver and not orange as is seen in the video of the south tower, therefore the material cannot be aluminum

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I don't understand the other evidence, but this is just silly. Any number of pigments or lighting conditions can cause that color, and to claim "therefore the material cannot be aliminium" means the guy is probably an idiot.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Molten Aluminum can be orange/glow, i would not trust any information that claims it has to be silver in color.
Google Images:
http://www.world-aluminium.org/media/molten.jpg

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/da...180326AR_b.jpg

http://www.thermix.com/images/alumin...-side-well.jpg


Research project from Clemson:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...%3D10%26hl%3Den

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

I figure if there's anything to the science of this stuff it'll be on the discovery channel one of these days. I'll take a look at it then when I can have some small confidence in the fairness of the presentation.

PairTheBoard

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

It's the grassy knoll of the oughts.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Thermite alone gets plenty hot enough to melt through steel and collapse the tower. It also would leave nothing behind but small traces of magnesium, iron and aluminum which would completely blend in with the aftermath of the building's collapse. Which begs the question - why incriminate yourself with military grade pyrotechnics when a garage grade device works just as well?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Aluminum is indeed very orange when it's molten.

This is on par with the guy who burned some [censored] inside some chicken wire to prove that the burning couldn't have brought the towers down.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Aluminum is indeed very orange when it's molten.



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http://www.matus1976.com/akira_bike/al_pour.JPG

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

I guess that proves it.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Aluminum is indeed very orange when it's molten.



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http://www.matus1976.com/akira_bike/al_pour.JPG

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http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ange_juice.jpg

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

did you look at the links in my post or not????

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Aluminum is indeed very orange when it's molten.



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http://www.matus1976.com/akira_bike/al_pour.JPG

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http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ange_juice.jpg

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I got an excellent chuckle out of this. nh sir.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Aluminum is indeed very orange when it's molten.



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http://www.matus1976.com/akira_bike/al_pour.JPG

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And lava is BLACK when it's MOLTEN!!

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8984/lava15b8bw9.jpg

Next week in Nielsio's science class, we'll reveal that molten H2O is actually HARD!

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

More than anyone could possibly want to read on the subject, but undoubtedly some good info:

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Nielso,

you think it's like 100% that it wasn't airplanes?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nielso,

you think it's like 100% that it wasn't airplanes?

[/ QUOTE ]


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ATM there is no such sequential mechanism theory that 'airplanes brought down the towers'; so it's pretty hard to get behind non-existent scientific theories.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

So when the Discovery Channel (America's Scientific Channel of Record) said the impact from the jets knocked off the fire retardant and the av-gas heated the steel enough for it to sag and pull away from the exterior walls trasfering the load they had been carrying to the structure below resulting in the buildings pancaking you say what?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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So when the Discovery Channel (America's Scientific Channel of Record) said the impact from the jets knocked off the fire retardant and the av-gas heated the steel enough for it to sag and pull away from the exterior walls trasfering the load they had been carrying to the structure below resulting in the buildings pancaking you say what?

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To quote it more exactly, the government report says 'and global collapse ensued'. That's it; it describes nothing and it explains nothing. Notice that I am calling for a sequential mechanism.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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To quote it more exactly, the government report says 'and global collapse ensued'. That's it; it describes nothing and it explains nothing. Notice that I am calling for a sequential mechanism.

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How much did a WTC floor weigh?
What is the impulse/momentum generated by a block this weight dropping 3 meters?
How does this compare to the typical load on the steel structure from say the 50 floors it would normally have to support?

Answer these three questions (it's very, very simple physics) and you'll realize that global collapse is indeed inevitable once the first floor goes.

There are legitimate questions to be raised about the collapse but it seems like you've picked the worst possible points. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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To quote it more exactly, the government report says 'and global collapse ensued'. That's it; it describes nothing and it explains nothing. Notice that I am calling for a sequential mechanism.

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How much did a WTC floor weigh?
What is the impulse/momentum generated by a block this weight dropping 3 meters?
How does this compare to the typical load on the steel structure from say the 50 floors it would normally have to support?

Answer these three questions (it's very, very simple physics) and you'll realize that global collapse is indeed inevitable once the first floor goes.

There are legitimate questions to be raised about the collapse but it seems like you've picked the worst possible points. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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You have not described a sequential mechanism, or pointed to a source that does describe it.

It would be very interesting if you would actually give that a try. Then we can see if that mechanism matches with what we see on the videotapes and the photographs, with the speed of the collapse, things like amount of thick dust, and so on.

NIST has not dared to do it.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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If you don't want to talk science, take your cynicism elsewhere.

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Why should anyone try to "talk science" with you? From previous threads, it's pretty obvious that you REALLY want to believe in a conspiracy, and nothing anybody posts to the contrary will convince you otherwise. It's like trying to debate the existence of god with a NotReady, or the theory of evolution with Sharkey.

You're not creating these threads to start a debate, you're starting these threads to push your agenda.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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did you look at the links in my post or not????

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Yes, I have and the issue isn't clear to me. On the one hand we have images of clear silver-looking molton metal, and then we have images of clear orange-looking materials. So that doesn't settle the issue, and I'd like to know what the science behind it is.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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If you don't want to talk science, take your cynicism elsewhere.

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Why should anyone try to "talk science" with you? From previous threads, it's pretty obvious that you REALLY want to believe in a conspiracy, and nothing anybody posts to the contrary will convince you otherwise. It's like trying to debate the existence of god with a NotReady, or the theory of evolution with Sharkey.

You're not creating these threads to start a debate, you're starting these threads to push your agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you saying you don't want to talk science? Why are you posting then?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

If the President was involved in this plot why was he so stunned when he heard about the first plane?

Also, do you not understand what a sequence is?
1. Plane hits tower, impact knocks off fire retardant material from beams.
2. Resulting fire from av-gas heats beams enough to cause sagging.
3. Sagging causes beams to pull away from external walls.
4. When support of external walls is removed floor collapses to floor underneath.
5. Weight of floors above causes floor to collapse onto floor underneath.
6. Pancake

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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It's like trying to debate the existence of god with a NotReady


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Still waiting for someone to do that. Unless you consider "You're irrational and dishonest" debating.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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It's like trying to debate the existence of god with a NotReady


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Still waiting for someone to do that. Unless you consider "You're irrational and dishonest" debating.

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Give an example of the sort of post which you would see as a good-faith attempt to debate the existence of God.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Er, molten aluminium will be orange at certain temperatures and silver at others, just like the heating element of your stove will be orange at certain temperatures and black at others. Black-body radiation and whatnot.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
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If you don't want to talk science, take your cynicism elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should anyone try to "talk science" with you? From previous threads, it's pretty obvious that you REALLY want to believe in a conspiracy, and nothing anybody posts to the contrary will convince you otherwise. It's like trying to debate the existence of god with a NotReady, or the theory of evolution with Sharkey.

You're not creating these threads to start a debate, you're starting these threads to push your agenda.

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Are you saying you don't want to talk science? Why are you posting then?

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I think the issue here is that you seem to have a lack of scientific training. You also could never be convinced of anything other than the current position you hold. No matter how much information given to you that contradicts your position.

One point of yours was completely refuted, about the color of the molten metal. Yet you just chose to say, 'oh look here is a picture of it in silvery form as well, I guess we will never know'. Guess what It can exist in both states. You seem to want to ignore this fact, but thats ok YOU HAVE MORE HASTY GENERALIZATIONS AND IDEAS BACKED UP BY VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE. OMG SULFUR WAS FOUND.

Sulfur is a common element found in aluminum and steel alloys. So it would be logical to find traces of sulfur in any sort of spectroscopic analysis. I imagine if we took a sample of aluminum from the siding of your house, or from any metal beams inside we would find sulfur. I guess that means you have your building laced with thermite ready to make it go BOOM.

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NIST has since noted that sulfur is present in gypsum drywall and other construction materials used in the towers.

[/ QUOTE ] from Wikipedia.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

I'm pretty sure that this thread is meant to point out the futility of arguing with someone about anything after they've rejected the key evidence. Well done.

Person A: Gravity exits.

Person B: Not everywhere.

Person A: What?

Person B: Not on Pluto.

Person A: What the hell are you talking about?

Person B: Have you ever been to Pluto? I didn't think so! We have no idea if there's gravity there or not.

Person A: Well, it still orbits the sun.

Person B: You haven't even seen Pluto.

Person A: Well, it's pretty obvious that we have gravity here.

Person B: Who cares if we experience some local phenomenon? They don't have it in Antarctica.

Person A: You gotta be [censored] me.

Person B: How else do you explain penguins?

Person A: What the hell do they have to do with gravity?

Person B: That's exactly the question that I'm raising with the Pluto example!

Person A: So you're trying to use penguins as another Pluto. I've seen penguins, and they obey gravity.

Person B: Please provide me with a mechanism for showing why a penguin that you've seen has anything to do with a penguin in Antarctica.

Person A: Ok. Now you're just being retarded. Why are you so smug?

Person B: Why shouldn't I be? You're the one who can't back up your unscientific beliefs.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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If the President was involved in this plot why was he so stunned when he heard about the first plane?

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The presidency is generally regarded as a puppet.


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Also, do you not understand what a sequence is?
1. Plane hits tower, impact knocks off fire retardant material from beams.
2. Resulting fire from av-gas heats beams enough to cause sagging.
3. Sagging causes beams to pull away from external walls.
4. When support of external walls is removed floor collapses to floor underneath.
5. Weight of floors above causes floor to collapse onto floor underneath.
6. Pancake

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Is this something you came up with yourself, or can we find a more detailed description of this?


Given your above (very undetailed) mechanism; can you describe to me what exactly is happening here?:

Can you include: 1. dust, 2. outward energies, 3. inside steel structure, 4. outside steel structure?

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/finn/5/sor11000.jpg

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Er, molten aluminium will be orange at certain temperatures and silver at others, just like the heating element of your stove will be orange at certain temperatures and black at others. Black-body radiation and whatnot.

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Are there different colors for different temperatures of *liguid* aluminium? Do you have any sources?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Yes I can. One way pratically and one way visually.

Visually: Look at any film of a high rise being demolished, don't get hung up on them using explosives to kick out the support columns in the building it doesn't prove your point. Notice that as the building collapses under it's own weight, or pancakes, that a bunch of crap is blown out from the building. This is air pressure blowing debris away from the building.

Practically: Find two boxes such that one fits into the other one with a small gap. Fill the outer box half full of flower, fill the inner box with phone books to give it weight, drop the inner box into the outer box. Enjoy!

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Yes I can. One way pratically and one way visually.

Visually: Look at any film of a high rise being demolished, don't get hung up on them using explosives to kick out the support columns in the building it doesn't prove your point. Notice that as the building collapses under it's own weight, or pancakes, that a bunch of crap is blown out from the building. This is air pressure blowing debris away from the building.

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Those videos are not a good representative because through the charges used, a whole lot of concrete is turned into dust.


But basically what you are saying is that all we see here is 'a bunch of crap' or 'debris' being blown outward through air pressure.

Can you then explain to me how we get this extreme high volume of it? I would also like to know exactly what kind of 'debris' it is.


http://www.donaldedavis.com/WTC91101/collapse.jpg

http://www.donaldedavis.com/WTC91101/smok1.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/markyannone/Album9/wtc.jpg

http://www.donaldedavis.com/WTC91101/plume3.jpg

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evid...t_aerial2c.jpg



Notice how you didn't address the following:

2. outward energies, 3. inside steel structure, 4. outside steel structure. Nor have you explained how the (enormous volume of) dust is created.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Er, molten aluminium will be orange at certain temperatures and silver at others, just like the heating element of your stove will be orange at certain temperatures and black at others. Black-body radiation and whatnot.

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Are there different colors for different temperatures of *liguid* aluminium? Do you have any sources?

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Planck, Max (1901). "On the Law of Distribution of Energy in the Normal Spectrum". Annalen der Physik 4: 553.

http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/webdocs/...anck-1901.html

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Er, molten aluminium will be orange at certain temperatures and silver at others, just like the heating element of your stove will be orange at certain temperatures and black at others. Black-body radiation and whatnot.

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Are there different colors for different temperatures of *liguid* aluminium? Do you have any sources?

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You post 30 minute videos with no transcripts but don't even bother to read the links of others which directly answer your question. WTF is wrong with you?

As for the debris/pulverization of concrete, the force and energy available in this fall is incredible. You simply have no comprehension how much kinetic energy is contained in a 4 million kg block of concrete (the weight of a single floor) accelerated by gravity. In fact, regular explosive charges could not account for the amount of debris you're seeing and they way they're blown out. Read this link for a calculation of the energy available in this fall - hundreds of times the largest convential weapons, equivalent to a small nuclear device.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

To add to what Phil said, I also don't think you realize just how big these buildings are or how much different it looks because instead of all the dust being blown out at ground level, where everything usually lands, and having it basically demolised from the top floor down. There where probably literally tons of non-steal material in the towers that was destroyed when they fell, being torn upart and turned to dust to be blown out of the building by the force of the collapsing floors. Try putting some of the flower from the previous experiment in your hand and clapping.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Nielso,

you think it's like 100% that it wasn't airplanes?

[/ QUOTE ]

MS Paint of WTC being attacked by giant bears would KILL here.