NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Hi,
I currently study in Canada and planning to take 6 months off and go to Vegas or AC. Is is reasonable to think that I could live decently by playing a mix of 1/2 during Thursday/Friday/Saturday while playing online the rest of the week?

I'm a winning NL100 players bonus whoring and making about 5-6 PTBB/100.

Any advice welcomed.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

i don't know but i think if you made a blog out of this you could make some money off of that for sure. many blogs are lame but i smell a winner right here. no joke. pls blog every day of this trip starting now. post link here and gl.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

It would be alot easier on you to get some sort of job (waiter,bartender) for some guaranteed money and then play poker the rest of the time.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Yeah, the issue here is going to be win rate and financial security. Presumably you can learn to beat the game for some about fairly quickly since 1) 1/2 NL is soft and 2) You've already put in time online.

However, be aware the 5BB/100 @ live 1/2NL translates to about $2.50 per hour, which is absurdly insuficient. You're going to need more like 45BB/100 to support yourself. That's a pretty quantum leap in how well you'll need to be able to play the game. Being a whitechip "pro" sucks, man. If you want to make your living playing NL, I think you need a realistic plan to be playing 5/10 as quickly as possible.

Seccond, do you have a sufficient roll to cover this? Can you have several losing sessions AND pay you monthly nut in Vegas, and still be sufficiently rolled to continue playing?

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, the issue here is going to be win rate and financial security. Presumably you can learn to beat the game for some about fairly quickly since 1) 1/2 NL is soft and 2) You've already put in time online.

However, be aware the 5BB/100 @ live 1/2NL translates to about $2.50 per hour, which is absurdly insuficient. You're going to need more like 45BB/100 to support yourself. That's a pretty quantum leap in how well you'll need to be able to play the game. Being a whitechip "pro" sucks, man. If you want to make your living playing NL, I think you need a realistic plan to be playing 5/10 as quickly as possible.

Seccond, do you have a sufficient roll to cover this? Can you have several losing sessions AND pay you monthly nut in Vegas, and still be sufficiently rolled to continue playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your winrate will be a lot higher live... you should be able to make $10/hr MINIMUM in a 1/2 game. That being said you could probably make more working a normal job or at least make the same amount with no fluctuations... I don't think very many people grind out 1/2nl for al living and i would probably rather kill myself. Live I really don't think its worth playing for a living lower than 5/10nl.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

All the people that I've met that played NL 1/2 for living had little to no financial obligations: very low or no rent, fully paid for car, etc. So it is possible, just as long as you don't expect a particularly comfortable life and have a large enough bankroll to get through the downswings.

With that said, I agree with the getting a real job during the day idea. You'd probably make more money as a waiter and you'd have a steady income.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It would be alot easier on you to get some sort of job (waiter,bartender) for some guaranteed money and then play poker the rest of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've heard from friends that 'serious' money can be made from blogs. given the popularity of poker with young internet players who are computer savy and the collective dream of 'going pro' i think this could be the alternative source of income.

kind of like the guy who sold all his possessions (car, clothing, hat etc) and put it all on the roulette wheel for one spin. it had about a break even expectation but the reality show or documentary he made of the event was the guaranteed win. blog rocket, and they will come.

(ps the guy doubled up... )

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Over the last few years I have seen many come out here to try and make it in the 1/2 and 2/5 games. I have seen about as many go back home.
1/2 and 2/5 just do not bring in the cash flow needed to make it here alone.
Now if you team up and live with 3 or 4 other to share rent, elect., gas, water and such you may do just fine.
At 1/2 and 2/5 you are not looking at enough income to cover the ever increasing cost of living here in Las Vegas.
Learn the 15/30 and up limit game and yuo have a good chance of getting someplace.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

I respect anyone who can be a break even player.to break even you Must play very good [everyone thinks they do]you cant ever tilt,you must play in good games,you must have a big enough bankroll to carry you thru losing streaks which you will have.To be a winning player you must do the above and be a great player[everyone thinks they are]..the only way you can find out how good you realy are is to try.muy guess is no..my suggestion is go to scholl get a good job play this game for extra income good luck

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Since you are running at 5/100 online, with good game selection in the 2/5 and 5/10 realm you should be fine. Just dont expect to get rich. Get your feet wet at 1/2 or 1/3 then start looking for the better 2/5 games, also check out the Bell's 5/10 game.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

sorry about my bad spellen

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
sorry about my bad spellen

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are so sorry about it, why not just go back and edit your original post instead of writing a new one to apologize?

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

I played 1-2 live for a living for about a year before I started playing internet poker. My overhead was small and I was young and single, so it wasn't that difficult. I payed my rent upfront(6 months) and started with a bank roll of 5k. I did play some 2-5 when the game was good but, 90% was at 1-2. It was a great life experience and i would recommend it for that reason. However with rakeback and multitabling the internet is far more profitable. If the internet dies i will be out in vegas as well. Good luck!

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Thanks all for the tips. Wasn't expecting to be answered. I plan to start all of this in September. From now on, I'll just continue to build my online bankroll as well as my live one.

As for the blog, it's a very interesting idea...

C ya all.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I played 1-2 live for a living for about a year before I started playing internet poker. My overhead was small and I was young and single, so it wasn't that difficult. I payed my rent upfront(6 months) and started with a bank roll of 5k. I did play some 2-5 when the game was good but, 90% was at 1-2. It was a great life experience and i would recommend it for that reason. However with rakeback and multitabling the internet is far more profitable. If the internet dies i will be out in vegas as well. Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

how much did you make in those 6 months?

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

U can make a decent earn an hour in the game , i dont know maybe 15-20 bux, but then u build ur bankroll up and move higher. I started playin for a living 10-20 limit in 2002 prolly makin about 25 or 30 but then i built up my bankroll and play as high as 150-300/ 200-400. Tstone MBD started at 1-2 NL and now plays as high as 500-1000.

People on this board always think "turning pro" is a dumb decision, but if ur dedicated enuff u can do it. Id say give it a shot, i wouldnt trade my job for anything and have been very successful. Although there are a lot of pitfalls u can fall into, blackjack, partying sportbetting etc... if ur good enuff ( and 5/100bb is) then id say go for it . I know a great NL player earn back to back 30k months in 5-10 and now plays as high as limits as there is.

gl brian

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

For the year I made 50-60k, I had a roomate who also played and he made over 100k. He did play a bit more 2-5 though.(he also has a 20k month) I never had a losing month becaue I was playing a low variance style.(NIT) I know its not alot of money but it was fun, no resposibilities, low stress. I was fortunate to run good early which obv. helped.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Ur post just motivates me even more now. I can't thank you enough. I'm very dedicated and serious about that and I think I can avoid the aforementioned pitfalls, hehe. I'll just build my live bankroll now so that I will be ready in case of a slow start when September comes.

Thanks for your comments, big boost there.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

I am glad my post was helpful, feel free to pm me wtih any future qestions. Also stay out of the pit/sportsbook. I did see a lot of winning poker players go bust because of their non poker leaks. good luck

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
U can make a decent earn an hour in the game , i dont know maybe 15-20 bux, but then u build ur bankroll up and move higher. I started playin for a living 10-20 limit in 2002 prolly makin about 25 or 30 but then i built up my bankroll and play as high as 150-300/ 200-400. Tstone MBD started at 1-2 NL and now plays as high as 500-1000.

People on this board always think "turning pro" is a dumb decision, but if ur dedicated enuff u can do it. Id say give it a shot, i wouldnt trade my job for anything and have been very successful. Although there are a lot of pitfalls u can fall into, blackjack, partying sportbetting etc... if ur good enuff ( and 5/100bb is) then id say go for it . I know a great NL player earn back to back 30k months in 5-10 and now plays as high as limits as there is.

gl brian

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you posting, or texting?

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ur post just motivates me even more now. I can't thank you enough. I'm very dedicated and serious about that and I think I can avoid the aforementioned pitfalls, hehe. I'll just build my live bankroll now so that I will be ready in case of a slow start when September comes.

Thanks for your comments, big boost there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not all about playing well tho, U HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS!! There was a group of 4 of us who hung aroung together, we all did well, they made 150 to 300k a year. I was very diciplined up to this point , maybe year and half ago, i never drank at the casino and had good money management. We started hanging out together and my discipline went downhill.


I blew 10k in the 80-160 game at the Borgata, lost maybe 2k each trip to foxwoods playin NL drunk. That was ok and I was stupid at the time but I corrected that, but my friends would go out 600$ dinners and $200 lunches everyday and they thought they were invinceable i guess. So basically 2 of them blew their whole rolls and are in debt/broke, and struggling and the third has problems also and just got a job after making 500k+ in a year and a half.

Another thing they did was play 200-400 because it was the highest game in the place with Stoxtrader and 7 other 2+2ERS, while im in the best 100-200 game in the country with 4-5 people seeing the flop, but they wont play because 2-4 is bigger, eventho u can earn moe in the 1-2. Controlling ur ego is a big part also. Last year and a half I would never play as low as 40-80 but I hit a big downswing and was still very comfortable but went back to grinding 20-40 at foxwoods just to get some wins under my belt. My friends played 150-300 on a 30k bankroll, lost most of it and played a well known 2+2er ( good game selection for ur last dollar) his last 10k heads up 75-150 omaha and went BUSTO. There is nothing wrong with stepping down and grinding it back out, but my friends are embarrassed to play 20-40 , but i think its better than working.

There is a lot more to being a pro than just being good player, taking losses , game selection , money management and i can say if u master these skills mentally u will have a much easier time playing for a living.

My one broke friend is a 2+2er, hes a really nice kid, maybe he will chime in if he sees the thread but he prolly sold his laptop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ur post just motivates me even more now. I can't thank you enough. I'm very dedicated and serious about that and I think I can avoid the aforementioned pitfalls, hehe. I'll just build my live bankroll now so that I will be ready in case of a slow start when September comes.

Thanks for your comments, big boost there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not all about playing well tho, U HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS!! There was a group of 4 of us who hung aroung together, we all did well, they made 150 to 300k a year. I was very diciplined up to this point , maybe year and half ago, i never drank at the casino and had good money management. We started hanging out together and my discipline went downhill.


I blew 10k in the 80-160 game at the Borgata, lost maybe 2k each trip to foxwoods playin NL drunk. That was ok and I was stupid at the time but I corrected that, but my friends would go out 600$ dinners and $200 lunches everyday and they thought they were invinceable i guess. So basically 2 of them blew their whole rolls and are in debt/broke, and struggling and the third has problems also and just got a job after making 500k+ in a year and a half.

Another thing they did was play 200-400 because it was the highest game in the place with Stoxtrader and 7 other 2+2ERS, while im in the best 100-200 game in the country with 4-5 people seeing the flop, but they wont play because 2-4 is bigger, eventho u can earn moe in the 1-2. Controlling ur ego is a big part also. Last year and a half I would never play as low as 40-80 but I hit a big downswing and was still very comfortable but went back to grinding 20-40 at foxwoods just to get some wins under my belt. My friends played 150-300 on a 30k bankroll, lost most of it and played a well known 2+2er ( good game selection for ur last dollar) his last 10k heads up 75-150 omaha and went BUSTO. There is nothing wrong with stepping down and grinding it back out, but my friends are embarrassed to play 20-40 , but i think its better than working.

There is a lot more to being a pro than just being good player, taking losses , game selection , money management and i can say if u master these skills mentally u will have a much easier time playing for a living.

My one broke friend is a 2+2er, hes a really nice kid, maybe he will chime in if he sees the thread but he prolly sold his laptop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with all of this, I saw the same exact things happen to many people. Guys that were much better than me refusing to move down because they cared what people would say. BUSTO! If poker is your only income you can't worry about what anyone thinks. It is your job, therefore you must treat it the same as any other job. A friend of mine had a tourney score of 400k about 3 years ago. He was playin 2-4 nl when it happened. A year leter he was playing 5-10nl and someone asked him " why u still playing so small?" He said "I play the level I know I can beat and will move up when I am ready." That is correct line of thinking to be successful.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Nice story there. I know it's not a game of ego, and that problems may/will arise if it becomes one. I play a rocky style online, which I carried to AC when I went there, and it suits me well. I know my limit(s), and I am sure I will learn a lot about myself as the sessions go by. It is very nice from you to share your experience. Thanks again.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

$20/hour at $1-2 is also doable if you exercise good game selection. $2-5NL will also earn you a nice wage

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

This is a great post and I agree 100 percent. Many people know how to play very well, and many of these same people end up busted b/c they enjoy the status of playing the biggest game in the house and the floorman kissing their ass, the black card lounge, the paper, so much that they can't step back, open a PBR and look at things logically. The whole idea is finding the best spot where you can make the most money with a reasonable amount of risk.

If you need everyone in the room to know your name, don't expect to do well. If you need to experience life changing financial swings every time you visit a poker room, don't expect to do well. If you can't resist the pit or sports, don't expect to do well. Play poker to make money, treat it as a business not as permanent vacation. And know that if you go broke, no one will give a [censored]. No one will care that you used to be a big winner and pulled that sick checkraise bluff. I mean it, no one cares. GREAT post and I think every pro/semi pro or aspiring pro (esp. young) should read.

Jeff

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Everyone fails to realize the fact that how young people are raised today they have no sense of responsibility and discipline. Therefore success is difficult for them.
They lack in ethical character and maturity.
This is not a putdown just reality.
When your raised without structure in your life you have no foundation.
I know there is decent money to be made at N/L but it takes a rare breed that can put it all together. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Oh, stop, that's not even close to true. We don't have responsibility and discipline...because we're YOUNG. It's not the generation.

Many of us HAVE made good money through discipline and responsibility. No, not a lot of us have it, but the ones who do have succeeded.

Quit making ridiculous generalizations.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Keys I would not expect the majority of young people to see my point because they seem to have little concept of right from wrong.
They were not raised with morality etc. etc..
It contributes to how they filter everything through thier mindset including poker.
Again I do not aim to put down anyone .But still I expect replies of attitude like yours and many more.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

I get your point. I have strong confidence I am not of that breed. But, I don't have to plead my case...I just have to go there and succeed. I am not looking for recognition...

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Keys I would not expect the majority of young people to see my point because they seem to have little concept of right from wrong.
They were not raised with morality etc. etc..
It contributes to how they filter everything through thier mindset including poker.
Again I do not aim to put down anyone .But still I expect replies of attitude like yours and many more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, we have no morality.

That's it.

I quit my last job for moral reasons. I don't think there's anyone in my MBA program that doesn't contribute highly to the community. A good friend of mine is ridiculed for his religious beliefs on a daily basis, yet continues to preach.

But hey, you want to take all the stories you hear about BAD people and attribute that to "today's society". Ever step back and think that the reason you hear all these stories is the simple fact that there's MORE information out there than ever?

Nah, I wouldn't expect that. Keep expecting as little out of my generation as possible. We're going to shock the hell out of you someday, and you can think of me when we do.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Live poker is so boring. I couldn't imagine sitting there and paying attention for 8 hours a day to player's patterns.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Keys I would not expect the majority of young people to see my point because they seem to have little concept of right from wrong.
They were not raised with morality etc. etc..
It contributes to how they filter everything through thier mindset including poker.
Again I do not aim to put down anyone .But still I expect replies of attitude like yours and many more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so patently untrue and tired that I can't believe you are serious. I am an educated thirty-something, and I don't think the 18-22 demographic is any more irresponsible than the many generations to come before it.

Your sweeping generalizations are uncalled for. You should get to know a few young people - I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how bright, articulate, and driven most of them are. Just keep an open mind. If you can. And I do mean this personally, because you do not speak for most of the 30+ crowd when you dismiss young people as unprincipled idiots.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

you can't really be that much of a jackass....can you? What a ridiculous attitude

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ur post just motivates me even more now. I can't thank you enough. I'm very dedicated and serious about that and I think I can avoid the aforementioned pitfalls, hehe. I'll just build my live bankroll now so that I will be ready in case of a slow start when September comes.

Thanks for your comments, big boost there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not all about playing well tho, U HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS!! There was a group of 4 of us who hung aroung together, we all did well, they made 150 to 300k a year. I was very diciplined up to this point , maybe year and half ago, i never drank at the casino and had good money management. We started hanging out together and my discipline went downhill.


I blew 10k in the 80-160 game at the Borgata, lost maybe 2k each trip to foxwoods playin NL drunk. That was ok and I was stupid at the time but I corrected that, but my friends would go out 600$ dinners and $200 lunches everyday and they thought they were invinceable i guess. So basically 2 of them blew their whole rolls and are in debt/broke, and struggling and the third has problems also and just got a job after making 500k+ in a year and a half.

Another thing they did was play 200-400 because it was the highest game in the place with Stoxtrader and 7 other 2+2ERS, while im in the best 100-200 game in the country with 4-5 people seeing the flop, but they wont play because 2-4 is bigger, eventho u can earn moe in the 1-2. Controlling ur ego is a big part also. Last year and a half I would never play as low as 40-80 but I hit a big downswing and was still very comfortable but went back to grinding 20-40 at foxwoods just to get some wins under my belt. My friends played 150-300 on a 30k bankroll, lost most of it and played a well known 2+2er ( good game selection for ur last dollar) his last 10k heads up 75-150 omaha and went BUSTO. There is nothing wrong with stepping down and grinding it back out, but my friends are embarrassed to play 20-40 , but i think its better than working.

There is a lot more to being a pro than just being good player, taking losses , game selection , money management and i can say if u master these skills mentally u will have a much easier time playing for a living.

My one broke friend is a 2+2er, hes a really nice kid, maybe he will chime in if he sees the thread but he prolly sold his laptop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow post of the year!!!

This post sums up all of the outside factors that need to be controlled. If you can't manage your life with discipline outside of the poker room, invariably at some point inside the room things will go wrong as well!! Great post to read to keep all of us grounded and disciplined. Thanks!

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keys I would not expect the majority of young people to see my point because they seem to have little concept of right from wrong.
They were not raised with morality etc. etc..
It contributes to how they filter everything through thier mindset including poker.
Again I do not aim to put down anyone .But still I expect replies of attitude like yours and many more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so patently untrue and tired that I can't believe you are serious. I am an educated thirty-something, and I don't think the 18-22 demographic is any more irresponsible than the many generations to come before it.

Your sweeping generalizations are uncalled for. You should get to know a few young people - I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how bright, articulate, and driven most of them are. Just keep an open mind. If you can. And I do mean this personally, because you do not speak for most of the 30+ crowd when you dismiss young people as unprincipled idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

30 somethings exist on 2p2? Cool. And to the dude who says the younger (Gen Z? Y? I dunno) generation was raised w/o morality and ethics etc. My question is this: Who were the people who raised these freaks and what generation allowed this to happen? Actually that was rhetorical, this thread was about making some bread at 1/2 not a generation battle, take this to EL D's forum or sumtin.
So, it looks as if the canned answer for live 1/2 is 10-20 bucks an hour. Good luck OP.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

I am pretty sure my $30/hr is sustainable long term with a mix of games including the 1/2 200 max, 1/3 200 max, 2/5 200 max, and 4/8 LHE kill and 9/18 LHE half kill games in Northern California.

$20/hr at 1/2 NL 200 max should be sustainable. It at least sounds perfectly reasonable.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

I would definately say 20-30/hr at 1/2 NL is very sustainable. I play the 1/2 300 Max at the venetian on a regular basis and I am far from a superb player with a lot of holes in my game, and I am maintaining 15-20/hr without a problem.

I would say a good player (who should probably move up) could hit close to 50/hr with solid adjustable play.

The biggest thing about NL in vegas is adjustments and game selection. Many of the games change so much and have so many calling/bluffing stations that you have to adjust to every player and stay on top of your game.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

Thank you. I did not intend to start a generation battle there. In fact, I did not know what to expect. I am surprised/pleased to have received so much replies. This is a great community and I will certainly enjoy myself here.

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

This is just a sign of immaturity. If these guys ever worked for 10 to 20 an hour to support themselves there is no way they would have blown through that cash. True grinders that keep their roll and save cash, pack lunches and try and chisel for free meals. Guys that eat 200 dollar lunches, blow their rolls on strippers/hookers and fancy cars... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: NL 1/2 Making a living?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
U can make a decent earn an hour in the game , i dont know maybe 15-20 bux, but then u build ur bankroll up and move higher. I started playin for a living 10-20 limit in 2002 prolly makin about 25 or 30 but then i built up my bankroll and play as high as 150-300/ 200-400. Tstone MBD started at 1-2 NL and now plays as high as 500-1000.

People on this board always think "turning pro" is a dumb decision, but if ur dedicated enuff u can do it. Id say give it a shot, i wouldnt trade my job for anything and have been very successful. Although there are a lot of pitfalls u can fall into, blackjack, partying sportbetting etc... if ur good enuff ( and 5/100bb is) then id say go for it . I know a great NL player earn back to back 30k months in 5-10 and now plays as high as limits as there is.

gl brian

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you posting, or texting?

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. How about if everyone agrees to post replies to this thread in English only?

In all seriousness, folks, there are some decent replies in this thread, but the horrible grammar is hell on the eyes and brain.