Two Plus Two Newer Archives - What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

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- - What are you more likely to do? *Poll* (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=555653)

I have no idea where this thread has gone since ive only skimmed it and its making my head asplode. I just want to say that if villain is raising 88 here, then he's usually not calling 3. Not sure if anyone's mentioned that.

A+ would read again.

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I have no idea where this thread has gone since ive only skimmed it and its making my head asplode. I just want to say that if villain is raising 88 here, then he's usually not calling 3. Not sure if anyone's mentioned that.

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Someone did, but the consensus seems to be that villain snap calls AQ.

Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

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Your opponent:
3253 hands
chow/meow/meowchow
F: roar
T: kitty
R: kat
WTSD: meow
W$SD: cow

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i have converted from a tilting poker player to a tilting 2+2 poster.

edit: using "u" and "you" for "you" in the same post is great for inducing forum tilt, wow.

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relax miles, you ended the content portion of this thread a long time ago when you decided to actually spend a little time thinking about the problem and wrote some thoughtful posts.

Now ppl are just having fun.

Heisenberg,
only pansies neglect to cap pf or raise the flop with 99 and only nits flat call the turn with 77. My range here would be like {KT,AT,88,A6s,A5s,air} all discounted to varying degrees.

Also, oink, is it wa/wb if you plan on raising the river? and yes ppl usually b/c UI AJ+ vs. me on the river here.

Naah. I'd call that a nice change of pace vs 2nd barrelers who vb good Ax on the end.

Not a line I see a lot tho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I stay away from your games [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Its interesting that all the people who say to not re-raise the river, are the same who would sometimes play a T the same way as villain.

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I wouldn't play a T like villain and I think calling is best here. Looking at villain's stats there are just too many things that point to this guy being on the more passive side of TAG (which then makes more sense for him playing a T like this). First, the difference between his vpip and pfr is larger than a standard tag with a vpip of 28, and while this doesn't always say something about his postflop play, it does hint about being passive. Second, his AFs are fairly low. Third, is WTSD is fairly high which either means his running really hot or it points to his passive style. By betting and raising less postflop he is letting others continue to SD more often than a 'standard tag' and thereby he is seeing more SDs and his WTSD goes up.

All that being said everything can change with a couple of observed hands.

Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

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Your opponent:
3253 hands
29.17/18.8/1.54
F: 2.0
T: 1.3
R: 0.98
WTSD: 43.5%
W$SD: 55.25%

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Villain's stats start out pretty similar to mine but end in a completely different place. How do you think a 29/19 gets postflop stats like these?

It's all about what he does on the turn and river with a pretty good hand. Villain's turn and river AF are depressed because he checks and calls when most of us would be betting and raising. He doesn't give his opponent an opportunity to fold his bluffs and other weak hands. Naturally this causes his good hands to reach showdown (bloated WTSD) where they usually win (bloated W$SD).

The high W$SD also suggests that he avoids most river bluffs.

Hero is seriously screwed here. Villain is exactly the sort of player who plays WA/WB with a ten. He also plays WA/WB with second pair but it would never occur to him to raise the river with it.

Folding the river is insane on general principles because bet-folding everything between AK and QQ is so exploitable it's ridiculous. I'd need a really amazing read before I deviated that far from "correct" play. So I call without hesitation.

But I must admit that a strict analysis based on pot odds and winning chances could easily show that folding is right versus this particular opponent. I certainly don't think this hand is worth paying two bets to show down. If my call button were truly broken I would fold with a clear conscience.

Other thoughts:

1. This problem is a mirror. Too many of you are putting Villain on the hand that you would have. That's a serious leak, folks.

2. This problem is flawed because Hero's playing style is not provided. Hero needs to put himself on a hand before he puts Villain on a hand. If you 3-bet light and then keep c-betting until someone returns fire then it's easy to understand why you think Villain has second pair. But if you would never value bet the river with AK (or even 77 [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]) then your mortal fear of rivered trips is well-founded.

3. That's why it's often true that there is no absolute correct play. What works for me might not work for someone else because our opponents see us differently. A good player has a consistent approach to the game. He doesn't play streets as if they were unrelated to the rest of the deal or the overall context of the game.

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And BTW, this was already one of the worst threads in 2+2 history before I joined in, and I think Joetall should feel embarrassed for even making this thread. I believe my contributions have debased this thread even further and I will take pride in that.

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I agree with this but I am laughing because its only going to get worse. Joe folded so we'll never even know the results!

-DeathDonkey