Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

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Serious post time:

Anyone who thinks that nlnut isn't using bots is either stupid, ignorant, or doesn't understand poker very well. It's obvious he's using a bot...or his team is using bots. Now, while I concede there may not be enough evidence to warrant seizure of funds, it certianly seems that at least closing their accounts and mailing them a check for the funds is at LEAST the very minimum that should be done.

How can someone seriously argue that those post flop stats are "based off of a secret strategy"...give me a break. Either Full Tilt doesn't care and just wants the rake money, or their fraud team is headed by a bunch of morons. (I highly doubt they'd risk everything by allowing bots, so I'm assuming that their security team is just retarded)

Step it up guys, this level of incompetence is highly unacceptable.

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I agree with all of this. These players should not longer be welcome at the site.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

Ok that you couldn't prove anything and seize the funds, but couldn't you just let them cash out and ban them from playing? You are not forced to allow suspicious players to play.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

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You're right, #4 is a type of program that I assumed would be banned (even if it is for novice players).

It's still too illogical to think that a place that outlaws datamining would allow humanbotting, and that it was an oversight when they made the rules. I would imagine we'll see an update to Stars rules soon.

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Trebek, the Stars list has been up for quite some time and based on previous discussions went thru extensive review before being posted. I wouldn't expect any significant changes, beyond updates as new prgrams get added.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

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Ok that you couldn't prove anything and seize the funds, but couldn't you just let them cash out and ban them from playing? You are not forced to allow suspicious players to play.

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Yes, that is what you (or I) as a player want.
how about Ft's big boss (whoever he is) when he has to decide to ban close to a million a year in rake?
What do you think he wants? (and don't give me the integrity and honesty speach, we all know that it weights very little compared to big profits).

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

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I think poker sites should seriously consider banning PT and it's equivalents. Without a way of tracking and collecting data, it's impossible for bots to operate. Also this would make it much easier to detect people who are cheating since they'll have to be tracking statistics somehow.
I know this will piss off all the HUDbots who depend on PT for their livelihood, but I think that as botting becomes more sophisticated and better, I think it's something we're going to have to live with.

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Im pretty sure anyone who creates a successful bot would be able to program a screen scraper or something to gather stats.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

This as about as clear as it gets to finding (even though an outsider found him) and catching a bot or humans using automated software. If you (FTP) can't find a bot here, i seriously doubt your ability to EVER find a bot on your own.

I agree with everyone who is saying FTP should give them their money and show them the door. Casinos ban card counters all the time. The card counters aren't doing anything illegal, but its the casino's "house" and they get to choose who is welcome and who is not.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

The solution is intrusive scanning of regular players (say above a certain play threshold - maybe 500 hands/week), and the locking out of anyone who doesn't give full access to the poker site's program. That would wipe out 99% of bots, as you'd have to program a custom virtual machine to run your programs - not an easy thing to do.

I know that a few months ago, Full Tilt didn't even do the most basic scanning for bots, unlike the industry leaders (Party and Stars), and I doubt anything has changed. Given that, I'm not encouraged by Full Tilt's empty assurances.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

The cash cow is diminishing, who gives a [censored] about bots - CEO FullTiltPoker

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

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[...] its the casino's "house" and they get to choose who is welcome and who is not.


[/ QUOTE ] Exactly... If FTP decides they (bot/humans/cyborgs/whatever) can stay, then they'll stay, it's as easy as that.

Re: Official Full Tilt Poker Response to Bot Thread
 

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In justifying how the bots were likely human grinders, your rep alluded to how they had a significant chat history. This seems pretty frightening. Can you confirm or deny that this was used as evidence that they weren't bots?

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My guess is the only way they 100% nail bots is no chat history / response to chat and if the bots plays for continuous hours on end that aren't humanly possible.

Hence the ability to fly under the radar with this set up and by anyone who wants to use a bot as long as they don't go about it 100% stupid.

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Hopefully, you'll at least discuss hypotheticals. Hypothetically, if you had concrete proof that players were using a computerized decision making system with humans inputting the actions, was this allowed previously? Is it allowed in the future? Have any policies changed on what players are or are not allowed to do?

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This may be the best result we will ever get out of this situation, a rewrite of the T&C to tighten up what specifically is and is not allowed.

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Hypothetically, if you were to have hand samples of hundreds of thousand of hands for several players, is there any level of precision with which the convergence of the stats would by itself be enough proof that robotic decision making is being made?

This is just one guy's opinion, but my impression from the emails was that your investigation was indeed less detailed than my OP. It seems that you very likely did think they were bots, but did not have the level of sophistication at poker to prove it (even with access to all kinds of info, hh's, timestamps, whatever).

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Bingo!