Re: more bbv retardedness
 

[ QUOTE ]
sam,

"I just happen to disagree with my colleagues re: our forum's quality and direction"

Instead of repeating that over and over, why don't you actually suggest some things that might improve the quality and discuss your thoughts on the best direction for OOT.

So far all you're doing is complaining rather than actually providing any constructive input.

FWIW, I think farewell posts are sorta stupid. If you think 2+2 sucks and don't want to post anymore, just stop posting.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "*" system isn't working; it really only alienates currently crappy posters who may eventually "get" OOT. Instead, peer review (i.e., regular posters saying "this thread blows/has already been done/is boring") should suffice. Locking the thread and providing a PM to the poster explaining why the thread sucks would help them understand what they are doing wrong. There is a non-trivial learning curve for new posters to the forum, before they learn how to post in OOT. OOT becomes good when people finally figure out how to make good threads, and this is one area that I think moderators can help with. There may be some initial discomfort, but IMO, this would be most beneficial in the long run.

Anyways, this is just one minor change that would likely result in improving the diversity of posters and eventual overall quality of the forum.

I'm looking forward to your obligatory "This is a really dumb idea" reply.

Farewell posts are extremely lame, but I don't think anybody has done a sweet music video one before, so hopefully it will be something new.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

sam,

"I'm looking forward to your obligatory "This is a really dumb idea" reply."

When did you turn into such a whiny little bitch?

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

sam,

You've been criticizing the mods, saying the forum sucks, suggesting that maybe it should be shut down, and talking about how it sucks so bad that you can't stand to post there anymore and must quit 2+2.

Instead of doing all that, why not just ask NT or whoever to suspend the * system for a couple of weeks and during that period you lock threads and do a "samj explains why your thread sucked" thread or something like that?

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of doing all that, why not just ask NT or whoever to suspend the * system for a couple of weeks and during that period you lock threads and do a "samj explains why your thread sucked" thread or something like that?

[/ QUOTE ]

As someone who reads and post in OOT (and BBV4L) I really like this idea. It will either reinvigorate the * system or will serve as the genesis of something that works even better.

FWIW, I don't think OOT is 'broke', but it is, for whatever reason (be it BBV, ELD or something else), a shadow of what it was 18 months ago. Trying something different for a few weeks would, at a minimum, break up some of the monotony for the regulars.

For instance, Stuey's user-mod Gong Show pictures and videos were very entertaining and helped make craptastic posts more bearable. I was opening threads that I knew would suck hoping to see something amusing.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think OOT is 'broke'

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Maybe not, but this thread from jordiepop called "Favorite Movies ( comedy)" is so brain-dead in every way (idea, content, execution, etc. etc.) that it should be a big warning sign.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think OOT is 'broke'

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe not, but this thread from jordiepop called "Favorite Movies ( comedy)" is so brain-dead in every way (idea, content, execution, etc. etc.) that it should be a big warning sign.

[/ QUOTE ]

The escalator thread was good.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

i was thinking through the * system and this is basically my take on it.

the basic argument for the * system is that it provides a deterrent to repeated crappy posting which forces mods to deal with a bunch of terrible threads, wrong forum threads, etc. since we already lock posts, PM users, move posts, etc, the * basically serves as a public reference point for something that could theoretically be put in the user notes. its value, if any exists, comes from two things:

1. warning other users about making bad posts
2. serving as a more forceful warning / consequence for those who make bad posts

and i suppose 2a. or some sort of meta-benefit might be the drama / discipline and punish element which some people enjoy, but that is mostly an extension of the first two.

now, do either of these benefits really exist? i think the first one certainly does; seeing the *s around the forum or seeing one applied in a thread gives a more identifiable face to our actions, rather than simply locking a thread, when it will fall out of view quickly. this is also where the old [censored] tactic of leaving the thread open after taking action was good at times.

i think 2 exists as well. i have gotten a lot of PMs from people wanting to get rid of *s due to their 'rep,' etc. i think this is kind of hilarious, but the type of person who really cares about that kind of juvenile crap is also the kind of person who might very well fail to learn another way. i think some of the other mods may underestimate how many people PM us about * removal (or at least me anyway). typically, the bad posters are the ones who get all up in arms about it, whereas a good poster like punkass, who got a * not long ago, will simply shrug, continue to post good and have it taken off in no time.

the other thing that suggests to me that it's effective is that i rarely issue a second * for someone who isn't basically out to get banned. the majority of *s are a one-time deal. i don't have any kind of tracking system in place but usually if someone gets a second * they are a major troll, el adam clone, BBV 'f oot' donk, etc.

i wouldn't be opposed to doing a no-* week in OOT, where we simply put something in the user notes every time we take action on a thread but don't change titles. but i don't think it would have a major impact on content. good threads are usually started by good posters, with the new/questionable/bad ones showing up to reply whether or not their own threads succeed. we are not short on posters; we are short on solid OPs, and the * system doesn't have much impact on those IMO.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

Since I have begun modding NVG, I have wished the the * system was there too. There have been many posts that weren't ban worthy, but dumb as [censored] (not the poster), that I can't really do anything about.

I would be opposed to a * free week cause I don't think it will do anything good. This is what I think will happen. It will be * free for the week, the content won't change at all, but diebitter and one or two other mods will spam about how much they like the change and they can really tell a difference. The * system goes away and samjjones is the hero of retarded posters everywhere. Diebitter spams the forums mentioning how samjjones got rid of the * system, so it makes nick b. daryn and NT! the villian of retards everywhere. somehow diebitter will start posting in OOT again, and may become a mod.

this obviously sucks.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

Nick,

I know you've never met an opportunity to bash DB that you didn't like, but, even if he does post in here or in ATF about how much better OOT is during *-less week, why does it matter at all? Why would that make the * system go away? You're the mod, he's not. If you don't think OOT was any better w/o the *s, then you go back to the * system. If posters whose opinions you respect ALSO say they liked *-less week, then, well, you elect to either listen to them, or not. Naturally, you consult w/ the other OOT mods, but I don't see why DB, Racious, Jurollo, me, or some arbitrary BBV4Lifer who's still bitter about his OOT exile will have any bearing on a decision that's up to the OOT mods. Even if DB and/or SamJ end up being the champions of bad posters, they will only be a problem if they step into OOT, at which point you ban them. Your paranoia about him becoming a mod borders on ridiculous.

Re: more bbv retardedness
 

Guys: here's the truth. I don't read OOT because it sucks balls. It pains me to say this - for nostalgic reasons - but it's true. You need to get rid of the nitty rules, you need to be more lenient on first-time offenders, and you need to remain harsh (or get tougher) on repeat offenders. You need to explain to first-time offenders what they did, and let em off with a warning, and add this to notes.

This isn't rocket science, but you guys sometimes seem so intent on throwing your balls around, you just can't see it.



Or if you want to settle this, go ask OOT what they want - and that includes asking them if they are happy with your modding and how you should change if they're not (and CHANGING YOU SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE), and stop pretending it's all okay. You're only kidding yourselves. If you aren't going to change it, it will continue to die slowly.