Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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Is there documentation for 1,000,000+ slaughtered after we left?

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Theres not much documentation on the Vietnam side, but the Khmer Rouge were pretty terrible, and there rise to power was correlated with us leaving.

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Wow.

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? pretty non controversial imo

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As noted above by Andy, Khmer Rouge rose to power because we went there in the first place, not because we left.

I guess people like you would like argue that the lesson of Vietnam is that we can never leave Iraq or else another Khmer Rouge will rise to power.

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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Is there documentation for 1,000,000+ slaughtered after we left?

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Theres not much documentation on the Vietnam side, but the Khmer Rouge were pretty terrible, and there rise to power was correlated with us leaving.

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Wow.

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? pretty non controversial imo

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As noted above by Andy, Khmer Rouge rose to power because we went there in the first place, not because we left.

I guess people like you would like argue that the lesson of Vietnam is that we can never leave Iraq or else another Khmer Rouge will rise to power.

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1.) plz continue to put words in my mouth
2.) plz continue to compare two completely different wars
3.) ugh

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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None of this, however, answers my question, though, about documentation of the "bloodbath" that occurred in Vietnam after we left.

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lines 637 deal with post withdrawal democide in Vietnam and of Vietnamese outside of Vietnam

The chart is well documented with footnotes to sources.

The total domestic deaths from 1975-1987 are summarized on line 762

129,000 493,000 1,571,000 are the low mid and high estimates

the total foreign and domestic deaths during that period from line 764 :

346,000 1,040,000 2,438,000.


This is a description of the methodology and summary of the findings for all periods

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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I think that anybody with a modicum of intelligence would say that the claim that in a strictly military sense, the US won the war in Vietnam

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Midge, I have read anti-vietnam war essays that state the military had 'unprecedented success' in Vietnam...

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The goal of military action is to help achieve political goals.

Our political goals in Vietnam were not met.

End of story.

To define military "success" by any other measure is ridiculous.

As a former military officer, it pains me to see active duty officers like vulture get this one so wrong. There is no such thing as winning a war in a "strictly military sense". That's like winning a football game in a "strictly rushing yardage sense". Clauswitz 101: "war is politics".

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Sorry I wasnt precise enough for you. By militarily, I meant in a tactical sense. Obviously we didnt meet our political goals there, thats what the thread is about. I thought people pretty much understood what I meant when I stated that earlier. Stop being such a nit, Kaj. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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vulturesrow

I think that anybody with a modicum of intelligence would say that the claim that in a strictly military sense, the US won the war in Vietnam, must be the obvious troll's claim. What next? the US is winning in Iraq? ORLY

That you may try to portray me as a troll, whatever your reasons, I can accept. That the majority of the posters on this forum, or any other forums, would agree with my accusing you of trolling in the above statement is also self-evident.

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Who is winning the Iraq War?

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Saddam Hussein obv.

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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The vietnam war was won, without a doubt by the Vietcong! It was a humiliating defeat for the US strategists.

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wow u must not know history. after tet, the vietcong were totally destroyed as a fighting force.

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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Terrorist campaign of the U.S. military ehh ???????

I can't say what I want to you without getting banned. So have a nice day

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phoenix program fits terrorist campaign. I guess you could argue it was CIA and not military.

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

The deliberate targeting of civilians as if they were combatants is terrorism. I don't think it was collateral damage, it was deliberate.

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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The deliberate targeting of civilians as if they were combatants is terrorism. I don't think it was collateral damage, it was deliberate.

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Civilian deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, "collateral damage" or "terrorism"?

Re: Could We Have Won Vietnam?
 

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Civilian deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, "collateral damage" or "terrorism"?

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anyone up for defending the phoenix program?