Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

The NL should just get over themselves and go to the DH.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
The NL should just get over themselves and go to the DH.

[/ QUOTE ]

if there was a DH in the 20s then Babe Ruth would have hit zero homeruns

[/discussion]

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
The NL should just get over themselves and go to the DH.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always figured it was the owners who didn't want the DH, since, one would think, that it would be more expensive. But, I wonder if that would attract a large group of new fans? I would think that the 'automatic' out or the walk to the 8th hitter(as dumb as that is) has to bore potential new fans and I am sure the pitcher doesn't want to hit. And it isn't like NL fans, regardless of their 'traditional' views and protest, would stop watching the games.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, then I guess a trained monkey must be smarter than most baseball managers, because none of these decisions are hard. I do think it's funny that you use Sandy Koufax as an example of a pitcher who didn't wear a skirt, when he is one of the poster children for not overworking your pitchers, retiring at age 30 due to injury after consecutive 320+ inning seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but if he had the same injury today he would be fine after a year or 2. Not to mention while he is an example of someone who got hurt pitching in a time when medical treatment wasnt as advanced, tons of pitchers had long careers dispite being "overworked"
These guys wear out after 100 pitches (a braindead benchmark to begin with. Its anice round number so people go with it. Some can cant thorw 80 and some can throw 150- atleast go with individualized pitch counts) because they are babied. Theres no reason that 30 years ago pitchers could throw complete games on 3 days rest all the time and now they cant throw 7 IP on 4 days rest.
Amazing Nolan Ryan and Clemens werent done at 25.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

you do realize it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder to pitch nowadays than it was back then? do some research. it's not about being babied. it's that the job is harder on an individual basis. jeez.

roger clemens must be such a baby because he can barely make it past 5 IP nowadays.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
The NL should just get over themselves and go to the DH.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Yea AL baseball's 4 and a half hour crap fests make for great baseball. They might as well go with metal bats if theyre gonna add the dh.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
you do realize it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder to pitch nowadays than it was back then? do some research. it's not about being babied. it's that the job is harder on an individual basis. jeez.

roger clemens must be such a baby because he can barely make it past 5 IP nowadays.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hes 45 [censored] years old. he had a 2 year period where he threw 32 complete games and amazingly his arm didn't fall off.
Part of it is that its harder to pitch these days. not wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder like you make it out to be. There were a few legit great closers and other managers had to copy what they with there worthless relievers. So now they think a "closer" is a position when its not. Pitcher is a position. If you have Papelbon , Rivera or someone like that fine. But guys who dont have pitchers that good still think they need a closer and a useless pile of crap like Joe Borowski racks up saves.
Managers love the lefty righty [censored] too. It makes sense sometimes (like when a lefty is actually good against lefties) it gets flat out stupid when a manager takes out a good right handed pitcher for an awful lefty to get someone like Garet Anderson out (who actually hits lefties.) Its even funnier when they pinch hit a [censored] lefty against Rivera in place of a good righty even though righties hit rivera better. But ofcourse going lefty righty all day and yanking good pitchers for bad ones is what smart managers do to win games lmao.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

[ QUOTE ]
not wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder like you make it out to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

it really is. don't underestimate how much harder the game has gotten. i'm not going to do the research for you though or get you up to speed, but it's out there. and i'll take actual statistical research over old man "hey man, BACK IN THE DAY WHEN I WAS YOUNG I'M NOT A KID ANYMORE BUT SOME DAYS I SIT AND WISH I WAS A KID AGAIN" perspective.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

1)blanket pitchcounts are retarded. Everyones body is different and can handle a different workload.
2)Even if the game is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder- you say you use statistics then how the [censored] many pitches and innings were guys throwing 25-50 years ago with shorter rest. Where are your statistics for that?Pitchers are in better shape now, medicine/surgery is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better but every time someone gets up to 100 pitches its omg bring that [censored] reliever with a 5 era in the game instead of actually
have them learn to stretch themselves out and get used to pitching in that spot.

Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
 

It's a good thing research doesn't show that 110+ pitches and more in a start not only put the pitcher at an enhanced injury risk, but the pitcher also performs substantially worse in his next start(s?) too. So there is only downside.

And for the pitchers who can handle more of a workload, guess what? They'll be the ones who pitch 200-220+ innings eveyr year and get more value as a result. There's a ton of value in that... simply because it's so hard nowadays TO do that. So it's still a win. Ask C.C. Sabathia.

[ QUOTE ]
Pitchers are in better shape

[/ QUOTE ]

So are the hitters



[/ QUOTE ]edicine/surgery is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better

[/ QUOTE ]

For the hitters too

[ QUOTE ]
but every time someone gets up to 100 pitches its omg bring that [censored] reliever with a 5 era in the game instead of actually
have them learn to stretch themselves out and get used to pitching in that spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but the body can't get "used" to all kinds of tension and pressure and etc. etc. that shouldn't be on the arm and elbow without getting hurt. And like it or not, one pitch in 2007 is a lot harder than one pitch in 1960. Sorry.