Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

I'm kinda sorry for how traz's game influenced my play in this one.
Did anyone mention scott's novote when it was a flip between me and fish? He was around and posted. After fish comes back wolf that is pretty incriminating.
Also, why did dustin live this long? Because scott was making a case against him and thought maybe he could get lynched.
Anyhow, easy to say from the outside.

Thx for modding smell godd job (except for the coinflip :P)

p.s.: I agree that the situation after the seers died was actually good for the village.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Great job on pulling through Scott and Fish. People don't give Scott enough credit as a wolf. He's actually a very smart wolf which kind of surprised me.

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scotthoward isn't an idiot, he just plays one on TV

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Did anyone mention scott's novote when it was a flip between me and fish? He was around and posted. After fish comes back wolf that is pretty incriminating.

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its kinda disgusting that Supine's "I abstain" was used to incriminate him when that was actually really villagery given the situation- a newbie wolf is going to actually say "I abstain" while leaving his partner up to a flip!?!?! (and yes, I mentioned this), while Scott not voting wasnt mentioned at all.

I take the blame for losing this game (and not for lynching any of the people Shorty said not to lynch)- but for not defending Supine harder when the game should have been a lock.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

so, was luckay or nez the n0 peek?

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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so, was luckay or nez the n0 peek?

[/ QUOTE ]I really shouldn't have to answer this. I agree with Scott: If my peek wasn't the one in which I said "I'm the Seer!" then I should be banned from POG, heh.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

I cleared Nez because I knew Luckay was a wolf, and Luckay fake seer hinted with Nez as village. I just see virtually no chance at all that Luckay fake peeks incorrectly d1 like that, because if Nez gets peeked and lynched (perfectly plausible given how often Nez seems to get to endgame) then that destroys his ability to fake seer.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

well i don't agree with using the words "when i die" with "don't ever lynch player x" if u are the seer, unless that is ur peek

but oh well

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

Neil,

you basically chose to come out as seer D1. Given that you had a wolf and there was no guarantee that you'll get another peek (given the no n1 peek)- maybe thats smart, idk

but maybe you dont leave a hint and gamble that you can live until D3- thoughts on this?

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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well i don't agree with using the words "when i die" with "don't ever lynch player x" if u are the seer, unless that is ur peek

but oh well

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if you read all of Neil's posts, he made it pretty clear Luckay was the peek.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Neil,

you basically chose to come out as seer D1. Given that you had a wolf and there was no guarantee that you'll get another peek (given the no n1 peek)- maybe thats smart, idk

but maybe you dont leave a hint and gamble that you can live until D3- thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]I thought Shortline was getting me lynched, and I thought he was a wolf, so once he said I needed to die I figured I wasn't getting another peek at all.

But honestly, I don't know at all what to do with an n0 wolf in a long game.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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well i don't agree with using the words "when i die" with "don't ever lynch player x" if u are the seer, unless that is ur peek

but oh well

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if you read all of Neil's posts, he made it pretty clear Luckay was the peek.

[/ QUOTE ]When he cleared kbar? Eek that was a horrible post, heh. But if it got Luckay lynched, I'm glad of it.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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well i don't agree with using the words "when i die" with "don't ever lynch player x" if u are the seer, unless that is ur peek

but oh well

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if you read all of Neil's posts, he made it pretty clear Luckay was the peek.

[/ QUOTE ]When he cleared kbar? Eek that was a horrible post, heh. But if it got Luckay lynched, I'm glad of it.

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I thought Luckay was a villager because if anybody as a villager was going to come and try and derail a wagon w/o reading any of Kbar's posts, it would be Luckay.

Edited to add that I never want to hear again that if somebody has too many votes they can't be a wolf.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

I mean, my post reacting to his clearing kbar. I think I said it had exciting implications. When I re-read my d1, I saw that and just winced. Imean, I have no regrets, basically when I said "Shortline doesn't lynch wolves d1," leaving it implied he lynched seers, and if he was trying to lynch me, and I thought he was a wolf, therefore I was seer, I was giving up the ghost.

But I don't tink I'd give up yet when I made that post about Luckay/kbar, so it was jut bad.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

Also- just voting for the 2nd wagon for "dual wagon" reasons, when you don't have no opinion on either wagon, is just complete and total crap.

If you ever see me vote somebody for dual-wagons, never take your vote off me.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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basically when I said "Shortline doesn't lynch wolves d1," leaving it implied he lynched seers, and if he was trying to lynch me, and I thought he was a wolf, therefore I was seer, I was giving up the ghost.


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Ahhh Shorty- when I first voted him D3 I thought he was villager, then the more and more I read the more I convinced myself that he was evil- and when Spaca made that post saying he thought Shorty and LC were villagers I knew he was the seer and kept going after Shorty anyways- good times.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

Re: Dual Wagons, I think those situations can manufacture information for the village, when they put into spots people who are later found to be wolves. So I still favor them.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Re: Dual Wagons, I think those situations can manufacture information for the village, when they put into spots people who are later found to be wolves. So I still favor them.

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but if you just end up looking like a wolf yourself it doesn't really serve much good. Shorty was all over the place D1 w/o mentioning Kbar at all- and for what?- trying to get wolves to bite? Nich dropped in w/o saying a word to vote Fmx for dual wagons and got lynched- and Supine dropped in late also and voted you for dual wagons and also got lynched.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

realize that im not saying you can't ever vote for somebody not the lead wagon- I just think doing it for the sole purpose of dual wagons is bad villaging.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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and Supine dropped in late also and voted you for dual wagons and also got lynched.

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6 or 7 seven days later and probably not solely because of this. Until the final 5 I was never in immediate danger of being lynched. You can't say me dual wagoning was the deciding factor of the game. Your stubborness might have been though ; )

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

dustin:

you can't be so simpleminded to assume that voting the second wagon in that situation is the most wolfy thing you can do. it's player-specific, time-specific, everything. sometimes the wolfiest thing that can happen is for a wolf to stay convinced of something ("fmxda has to be a villager! luckay has to have been the peek!"), and you can only figure that bit out by providing them with another option. dual or triple wagons provide more information than single wagons, period. whether you know enough to apply that information correctly and cross-reference it with player-specific reads or tone tells is another matter entirely. it's not just "getting wolves to bite," it's seeing who reacts like a villager might and who does not. if you look closely, you can see the uncertainty in a villager's choices (is this second wagon legitimate? do i care if the other guy gets lynched over my guy?) and you can identify people with information they shouldn't have (clearing someone when there is no logic to it). and then you look for people who you identify as "not wanting to be lynched." it usually becomes very clear who those people are.

unfortunately, that logic gets me in trouble sometimes with village power roles vs. wolves, so then you have to negotiate that battle. that's mostly about whom you think may have additional information and does not want to be lynched, and THEN who seems to be genuinely interested in narrowing down the wolves...

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Nich dropped in w/o saying a word to vote Fmx for dual wagons and got lynched

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if that is the reason, then those people fail at POG...i am the biggest supporter of dual-wagons...so it's not wolfy for me to vote solely to help create a 2nd viable wagon...sure, i can do it as a wolf as well, but then that just makes it a no-tell move; but to say it's wolfy when I do it is horrid

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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dustin:

you can't be so simpleminded to assume that voting the second wagon in that situation is the most wolfy thing you can do.


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I never said that it was. I said voting for the 2nd wagon for sole purpose of voting the 2nd wagon is bad villaging.

If you're voting for the 2nd wagon just to try and seek reactions, then thats no different than claiming wolf for reactions, which I've been villified over many times.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

as you should have realized by now, claiming wolf puts no pressure on wolves. starting a bandwagon opposite a wolf bandwagon (or villager bandwagon, or seer bandwagon) puts pressure on wolves. the only thing wolves feel is when you vote them. everything else, they can ignore, especially useless wolf-claiming.

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I said voting for the 2nd wagon for sole purpose of voting the 2nd wagon is bad villaging.

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the sooner you realize the huge fallacy contained in this statement, the better you will become.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

There is no fallacy in that statement. If you're villager, vote who you think is a wolf. If every villager does that we'd have way less problems.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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There is no fallacy in that statement. If you're villager, vote who you think is a wolf. If every villager does that we'd have way less problems.

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sometimes you have to lynch people who are just screwing around and not really villaging so they dont get lynched later when it really matters.....

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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There is no fallacy in that statement. If you're villager, vote who you think is a wolf. If every villager does that we'd have way less problems.

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sometimes you have to lynch people who are just screwing around and not really villaging so they dont get later when it really matters.....

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I disagree

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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There is no fallacy in that statement. If you're villager, vote who you think is a wolf. If every villager does that we'd have way less problems.

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sometimes you have to lynch people who are just screwing around and not really villaging so they dont get lynched later when it really matters.....

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This is true for SOME players, not all of them IMO

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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[ QUOTE ]
There is no fallacy in that statement. If you're villager, vote who you think is a wolf. If every villager does that we'd have way less problems.

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sometimes you have to lynch people who are just screwing around and not really villaging so they dont get lynched later when it really matters.....

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think this makes much sense in the context of full-game strategy. Basically you're saying you're smarter than everyone else, and you don't trust your team to make the right decision, so you want to deliberately make a wrong decision now...

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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There is no fallacy in that statement. If you're villager, vote who you think is a wolf. If every villager does that we'd have way less problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes you have to lynch people who are just screwing around and not really villaging so they dont get lynched later when it really matters.....

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think this makes much sense in the context of full-game strategy. Basically you're saying you're smarter than everyone else, and you don't trust your team to make the right decision, so you want to deliberately make a wrong decision now...

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no he is saying that the wolves will keep the nonhelping idiots alive and will get them lynched later. the idiots can be either wolves or villagers, but either way they are not helping or following so it is worth the coinflip

i dont 100% agree, but part of me definitely does

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

Having clowntable around at must lynch would have been horrible- not only because he could have gotten lynched, but because he wanted to lynch me, Lastchance, etc

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

OK, put that way Mets, there IS logic to that. That's interesting.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

I would have never gone after Clowntable if I was confident he was a villager

but because I wasnt confident, and it was 2 rounds from must lynch, I think he was the right play that day

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

Dustin,

I like games where I finally figure out you are a villager and can bounce off of you

BTW Eskimonk, the VR kill was worse than Bravos IMO

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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OK, put that way Mets, there IS logic to that. That's interesting.

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cool. glad you understand. I am still not 100% sure it is always correct, but like i said, sometimes it makes sense even if you are not confident that they are a wolf

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Dustin,

I like games where I finally figure out you are a villager and can bounce off of you

BTW Eskimonk, the VR kill was worse than Bravos IMO

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no way. VR voted herself so she couldn't be allowed to live until end game.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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Dustin,

I like games where I finally figure out you are a villager and can bounce off of you

BTW Eskimonk, the VR kill was worse than Bravos IMO

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no way. VR voted herself so she couldn't be allowed to live until end game.

[/ QUOTE ]

she claimed wolf too, but I agree with Nez

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

If I'd lived past d1, my suspects were Luckay, VR, shortline, so I'm not faulting the VR lynch myself.

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Dustin,

I like games where I finally figure out you are a villager and can bounce off of you

BTW Eskimonk, the VR kill was worse than Bravos IMO

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no way. VR voted herself so she couldn't be allowed to live until end game.

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This is silly... people do the vote themselves thing all the time

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Dustin,

I like games where I finally figure out you are a villager and can bounce off of you

BTW Eskimonk, the VR kill was worse than Bravos IMO

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no way. VR voted herself so she couldn't be allowed to live until end game.

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This is silly... people do the vote themselves thing all the time

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and they should die for it

Re: Average Speed XVII Game Thread
 

I was being sarcastic...you all aren't trying to relevel me are you??