Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

My friend pointed out to me that it looks like these guys are from Pittsburgh because of there screen names. I can tell you for a fact that I'm tied in to the underground poker world in Pittsburgh. In one of the Rooms I play in I heard a true story from a reliable source that there is a guy in Pittsburgh that a room full of computers and several people playing in 1/2 nl rooms. He pays them by the hour to play for him. He gives them a certain hands to play and not to play. Certain hands (like AA)they are never to fold unless they are three bet. Once they are three bet they signal him and he comes over and makes the decision for the player. This sounded a little fishy and I didn't believe him at first, but he insisted it was true and he told me who the guy was and I didn't know him. I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this applies. But I think this can explain why there are the same hands being played, AA never folding, etc etc. I did't think anything of it at the time because I was playing live and I'm not sure that's cheating. They don't use a bot but they are coached.

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

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My friend pointed out to me that it looks like these guys are from Pittsburgh because of there screen names. I can tell you for a fact that I'm tied in to the underground poker world in Pittsburgh. In one of the Rooms I play in I heard a true story from a reliable source that there is a guy in Pittsburgh that a room full of computers and several people playing in 1/2 nl rooms. He pays them by the hour to play for him. He gives them a certain hands to play and not to play. Certain hands (like AA)they are never to fold unless they are three bet. Once they are three bet they signal him and he comes over and makes the decision for the player. This sounded a little fishy and I didn't believe him at first, but he insisted it was true and he told me who the guy was and I didn't know him. I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this applies. But I think this can explain why there are the same hands being played, AA never folding, etc etc. I did't think anything of it at the time because I was playing live and I'm not sure that's cheating. They don't use a bot but they are coached.

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this may be within the rules of full tilt, but IMO it shouldnt be allowed. instead of having a computer program bot he hired human bots that he pays by the hour, LOL. BAN this man from online poker, clever idea though.

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

I think we need to give the guy a break now that his side has come out. Also, why is it that people arent trusting nation who a ctually knows him?

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

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Chuck,

Approximately what month did you start your team play? november

You mentioned Full Tilt looked into dozens of accounts, were any of these part of your team?......no Were there more members of the team besides the other three?.....just the four account you mentioned. full_tilting (mine), and my friends, mariojr, 1forthethumb, 0_drunkenboxer

Why did 1ForTheThumb stop playing?.......He quit . Why didn't 0_Drunkenboxer start from the beginning?......he started when thumb quit.... Did he used to play by himself and join the team? yes

Why would you guys get up when I logged in?........ never on purpose....however we broke for dinner at 5pm-6pm EST everyday....so if you came in at that time that would explain it.

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Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

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My friend pointed out to me that it looks like these guys are from Pittsburgh because of there screen names. I can tell you for a fact that I'm tied in to the underground poker world in Pittsburgh. In one of the Rooms I play in I heard a true story from a reliable source that there is a guy in Pittsburgh that a room full of computers and several people playing in 1/2 nl rooms. He pays them by the hour to play for him. He gives them a certain hands to play and not to play. Certain hands (like AA)they are never to fold unless they are three bet. Once they are three bet they signal him and he comes over and makes the decision for the player. This sounded a little fishy and I didn't believe him at first, but he insisted it was true and he told me who the guy was and I didn't know him. I didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if this applies. But I think this can explain why there are the same hands being played, AA never folding, etc etc. I did't think anything of it at the time because I was playing live and I'm not sure that's cheating. They don't use a bot but they are coached.

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Note that nlnut besides claiming not to be using bots, also is is claiming that the above isn't the situation. If it were, a site would likely consider that a violation of their T&C. Either way, this crew isn't being fully forthcoming, so something they are saying seems to be a lie, either overtly or by omission.

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

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nation,

Nice dodge of the critical issue in assessing the stats. You have no non-laughable answer so you and your bud aren't going to reply.


Van Veen,

You are ignoring the far greater number of postflop siutations that have to take into account:

1) hu or mulit-way
2) board texture
3) betting on multiple streets
4) stack sizes.


There are infinite variations.

PLUS if they do in fact have all that figured out, then why aren't they on 10/20 instead of 1/2?

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Actually I think it could be quite simple: just don't take account for the majority of optimal postflop play. Just play ABC (based on your 2 hole cards, sometimes not). Their system isn't that complicated and I doubt they win as well as they could be if they made adjustments on their own. Still, cutting down on overall variance isn't a terrible cause either.

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It's still more complicated post-flop than you are making it out to be (and you are actually addressing the issue they won't). Fit-or-fold works mainly facing bets or raises. But throw in calls or odd bets like min-raises and post-oak bets, and it gets *far* more complicated. At least to any human playing manually, no matter how many tables he is playing.

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Well that's just it. They aren't making reads on other players (as far as I can tell), they probably aren't pursuing even semi/quasi-marginal situations, and their preflop range is probably such that it's very clear how to play it postflop.

Granted all of this is insanely exploitable, but they still make money.

Here's where I'm still hung up: if (as they or nation have claimed in this thread) they indeed only seek to play hands verses fish the overwhelming majority of the time, i don't see how these stats could be as close as they are. Unless, of course, the NL200 FR games have been consistently loaded w/ the same amount of fish playing equally as bad as the other.

I guess what I'm getting at is this: there HAS to have been SOME kind of variation between each of the 3 players re: opponents faced. Also what about variance experienced between the 3 accounts? WTSD, W$ASD, stuff like that.

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

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what part of it being a "system" don't you undestand. We created it together, and studied it together. And then we try to give each other advice during our sessions...all of this will create identical numbers...and all of this is allowed by FTP T&C

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DOESN'T EXPLAIN POST-FLOP. ANSWER THE [censored] QUESTION ADDRESSED TO YOU EARLIER ON THIS!

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I will not discuss post flop strategy for obvious reasons. You are asking me to tell you how we play. That will never happen

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Another nice dodge. I am only asking how you can account for identical post-flop play when the number of total situations is greater by orders of magnitude than just pre-flop ones. Of course it serves your case better not to give an obvious lie and just refuse to answer.

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I would have to discuss the strategy to answer this question. If not please tell me how to answer it otherwise and I will try too.

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

bluff,
c'mon, you know you agree with me. if a rule set exists that would generate these stats for a bot then a human (or group of humans) could execute it just as well (they're just using simple rules based on their own hand strength alone - pretty sure!). your arguments relies on the supposition that no human in his right mind would do that. i don't think that's true. what we know is true about these four players:

a) they're using the same strategy;
b) that strategy is simple.

whether they're bots or idiots is completely unknowable from our limited perspective.

what's most troublesome here isn't that bots might be playing in games (they probably are - what'dya gonna do?). it's

a) the impossibility of reliably distinguishing between bots and humans without invading the privacy of users;

b) how half-assed Full Tilt's investigation seems to have been.

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

my first post..............i will keep it short.............what a trainwreck, OP has found an unregulated section of this game never considered. All I can say is WOW

Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt
 

Wild, as a person with a philosophy degree I cant help but ask: if you teach a human to play like a bot, and pay him to play like a bot, and he does play like a bot, is that botting or not?

Also intersting is that he makes enough money to pay people to do this...