Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

Ansky, what hands would YOU c/raise and then check the turn with?

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

And if he checks do you bet?

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

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Ansky, what hands would YOU c/raise and then check the turn with?

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every hand in my flop c/r range is also in my turn ck range and also in my turn bet range.

I know its a dick response but its true.

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

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Ansky, what hands would YOU c/raise and then check the turn with?

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every hand in my flop c/r range is also in my turn ck range and also in my turn bet range.

I know its a dick response but its true.

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so ill, so full of tricks

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

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Dave, I'm not going to get into this too deep, but:

I have very few strategy posts. When I make one, I'm pretty self-concious about not sounding like an idiot, so I spend a lot of time working over answers, and then trying to condense the response down to important points. This is vital to a useful discussion. I'm quite sure many people skipped your reply entirely. Beyond that, trying to reduce a reply to vital information really exposes weak points, contradictions, or other mistakes.



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The problem with quick, short responses is there's no reasoning given, which is bad. If people want to skim over a longer post that's fine, and their loss, but I tried pretty hard to flush out my thinking.

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I realize Funkii asked you to elaborate, but try to keep it directed, and expand further on one point if Funkii has a follow-up question.


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He asked a pretty vague question that required an in depth answer. The problem with your stumpynotes is that they arent complete, and miss the point sometimes.

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Postflop, the check-raise could be a draw, a set, or an underpair.


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Underpair to us, but an overpair to the board. That's kinda important. I also said to discount a set because I pretty much never play scared of sets. If he hit one, aw shucks oh well.

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We're ahead of 2/3rds of these, so I call and see a turn. (No exact range given. Pairs + ??)


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EXACT range is given, basically. All pocket pairs are accounted for. I said that villian probably never has two pair here. I even said that AKs is possible here. I guess I sorta assumed he's not doing this air, and that seems pretty much the case. There's not many other interesting hands that modify anything, they're pretty much all air at this point. I guess I sort of lumped flush and straight draws together as part of his range that we're ahead of. I don't need go through every possible hand and say what we should do against it.

Also Stumpy, you need to realize that putting players on an exact hand range is futile, and often counterproductive. Especially good, tricky players. Their strength comes from them often having ATC. Yes you should try to do equity calculations and stuff, and try to think about what likely holdings are, but they're just that, likely . Look around at the threads in the HSMTT forum and you'll find that there's few that involve poker stove and pinpointing exact hand ranges. High level players are beyond that.

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The turn is a brick. I don't like calling, I don't like folding, and if I push nothing we beat calls.
So I think we should push and get rid of the draws. <No EV Calculations Provided>

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See comment above about EV calculations.

There is value to winning the pot right now. We don't need to do the technically +EV thing on every street, like betting enough so that villian is getting worse than 5:1 on a call so we profit. Even if we could raise some less amount than all in and get villian to call with a draw unprofitably such that we're charging him too much, it's not happening because of stack sizes. My point here was to push and win the pot here, and I'm happy doing that.

At the same time, I thought that because Ansky is so convinced that he's beat here, the better line may be just to check/call down. It's very close and I'm not sure what's better.

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

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This thread sort of reminds me (and I don't mean to insult it) of the thread Betgo made about folding AK PF when him and villian "potted it back and forth". I mean are you really trying to narrow a villian's range so much that you can fold a premium hand?



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In the thread I posted, I had KK with 250xBB, villain and I potted it back and forth preflop. I am not bad enough to keep raising with AK. The consensus was I should have stopped potting it, and as played I had a fold. Of course I got allin against AA and busted.

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There's no need to defend yourself, the point is that you made the right move by going all in, because you can't pinpoint a villian's range that much. I think Ansky is trying to do that here.

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

haha who the [censored] says you can't pinpoint a villains range that much? lol

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

yeah so it's a pretty easy shove if you discount sets, I'll have to try that more often

also my question wasn't at all vague, and you didn't even really answer it. WA/WB stands for way ahead/way behind, right? that's not an answer for what you should do on the flop (nor, of course, is it remotely true)
you said it was what line you would take, which makes no sense.
the problem with your long posts is that they contradict themselves (such as saying he could have a flush draw but that you are WA/WB).

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

I think we're pretty wrecked on this flop. We look really strong. I don't think he really c/rs much worse for value, and I'm not really sure he c/rs a FD since it really doesn't look like he has FE, but then again, like everybody always c/rs a FD here cause they don't really like they're other options. He def c/rs everything that beats us here obv.

With position, I'm still pretty tempted to call because I really don't expect two barrels from a FD so we can confidently fold the turn. But, there are 13-25 combos of hands that beat us (depending on how likely he is to call with 45o... I guess AA/KK are also sort of possible), and not a huge amount of hands that we beat. Plus the hands that we beat have like 36+% equity on us.

I think just fold flop.

Re: Overpair garbage bla bla sunday mill
 

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yeah so it's a pretty easy shove if you discount sets, I'll have to try that more often


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Why would we discount sets here? Seems like we should expect him to play a set like this always.