Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Okay, I guess my post was a little too indirect (ok, confusing).

People are built in with "not me." We don't believe that the worst things will happen to us. This site is a wonderful example. How many people here deny that they could become degenerate gamblers, especially when they peek down at their first poker hand?

I am well aware that intelligent people are able to become addicted. Both my parents were Cum Lauds (biololy/ chemistry, math, art) in college and they both are heavily addicted to drugs.

I guess that I was speaking from a poor-person's perspective, that certain drugs have a stigma of stupidity to them. Now, if I meet any one who does drugs, I simply steer clear of them. I don't even allow weed in my house.

A poor person would be forced to look for drugs and use more to attain the same high as a rich person. Crack is simpply cocain mixed with baking soda. The "crack" comes from the sound of the mixture cracking while it is cooking on the stove. But mind you that a rock will have at most one-third of real cocaine. Compare weed: "rag" vs "'chronic" vs "norhern lights." The prices increase for a reason. There is rumor that people in the Hollywood Hills smoke stuff that costs $10,000 per pound. I don't know if I believe that.

I also konw that marijuana is not addictive, nor does it have an effective lethal dose.

My question is this:

Is it perhaps a factor of proving one's superiority that someone will try drugs? Like going on a roller-coaster ride and taking off the seat-belt. Just so at the end one can look at their freind and say, see? No big deal, right? This is sort of what I was getting at when I was talking about intellegence and stigma. Perhaps this touches lightly on emootional growth.

How much does stress add into the factor of drug addiction? Why are some people able to do them recreationally and other's can't?

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

When you have coping problems in comparison to others, it could be because of lack of good coping mechanisms in comparison to others, or being under greater pressure than others, or a combination of the two.

And it could be because of unresolved past psychological traumas, too, so the reason may reach well beyond any current problems or solutions that might seem obvious right here in the present. This latter is probably why the reasons for addictions can be invisible and very surprising to others. They might actually be perfectly in sync with the uncertainty, unhappiness, and neurosis a person has had all their life or a huge part of it. There's not "no reason" for the drug addiction so much as our lack of knowledge of the reason or reasons, which may be many and run extremely deep. And may indeed be virtually ineradicable, to boot.

They say that one of the things that curing an addiction does is leave you well aware that you are exactly as screwed up as you've always been. You just have decided to try a different approach to handling it. For those that don't, an incurable habit can seem an adequate and even welcome response to an incurable set of deep-seated psychological problems.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

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And the two guys example is silly, one of them already hates his job and the other one will soon, no one feels less pain or anything, just different types.

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I disagree with this. The guy who is happy with his job now, is more likely to move on to another job situation where he is happy in the future. While the guy who is staying with a job he isn't happy with, is more likely to stay unhappy.

Bottom line: If you can't find a way to be happy in your current job, move on and find something you can be happy doing.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Blarg,

Do you think that these girls... Lindsay, Britney, Paris, etc... are just so used to getting everything they want from their parents, that when they don't get everything they want from others around them that causes problems for them?

In other words, are they just incapable of handling even minimal rejection, because they never learned how to cope with it early in life?

How does group social dynamics play into the picture?

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

Okay, Blarg. These seem to be the common psychological issues that are always presented.

Jewel Kilcher wrote about always being unable to wind down after a show: "Elvis doesn't have to come back from the dead to tell me that this is when he decided that sleeping pilss seemes like a good idea."

So, yes, coping is an issue. I don't buy the argument that all drugs are for coping, and that addiction to these drugs are from lack of coping skills.

I once talked to a person who was a self-confessed alcoholic. She told me that she was able to drink two fifths of alcohol a day. I also have a friend who goes on binges. He is one of those who drinks three beers and is drunk, after five, he is blacked out.

Thanks to my own parents, I have an incredibly high resistance to any and all drugs. When I used to drink for the sake of getting drunk. I would be able to drink a fifth of Jegermeister, tequila, or whatever, and still sink a case of beer. When I was 13, I had a surgery where I had to be put to sleep. The anesthesioligist couldn't get over how much I needed to become drowsy. I took more than twice what an adult commonly needs. Novacain has absolutely no effect on me. Well, the doctors stop at six shots, because that is to dangerous.

The reality, is that for someone like me, becoming addicted to drugs or alcohol is physically unlikely. I couldn't possibly sustain it.

I am wondering if resistance has anything to do with it. That an addict simply starts up with a quick cheap high, and as there resistance increases, moves on to the next thing. I am led to understand that this is how herione addicts get started.

I never understood why the whole debate never mentioned that yes, some people actually like being high, and that heck, since they enjoy it, just like some people enjoy coffee in the morning, or kids love a candy bar, they can't wait to get their hands on a new drug. That some people can drink one cup of coffee and others can't that some people can have a hit and others can't.

Is addiction a loss of control? When I drank heavily, my belief was that if I was to loose my job, or lost control of anything else, that I was an alcoholic.

And so getting back to Lindsay Lohan and the others. Hasn't anyone thought that maybe they are bored? Perhaps living out your dream to the fullest is no longer stimulating. Look at the path Britney took. She got married, had kids (two unfortunate patches some poeple use), and now is using drugs. Did it take having kids for her to realize that she has problems?

I don't know if being a child star, or growing up priveledged has much to do with their partying habits. I am thinking that on the immortality complex, with parents constantly telling them to chase it, maybe they believe that they are bigger than drugs.

So I guess now having supportive parents is a bad thing, maybe it increases the kids willingless to take more risks, take more mistakes, and heaven forbid, temp fate with drugs.

I also don't undertand how people become addicted to pills. Yes, an upper to get through the day, a downer to sleep. But what about things like vicadin? I can't imagine being at a party, everyone is sitting around talking, drinking a beer, and someone pops out with a bottle of pills? Pills don't appear to be a social drug.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

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So, yes, coping is an issue. I don't buy the argument that all drugs are for coping,


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I wasn't making that argument.

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and that addiction to these drugs are from lack of coping skills.


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Every case is individual of course. I think the general thing to be avoided is assuming anything but. Plenty of people have their own, different reasons, of course.

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I once talked to a person who was a self-confessed alcoholic. She told me that she was able to drink two fifths of alcohol a day. I also have a friend who goes on binges. He is one of those who drinks three beers and is drunk, after five, he is blacked out.

Thanks to my own parents, I have an incredibly high resistance to any and all drugs. When I used to drink for the sake of getting drunk. I would be able to drink a fifth of Jegermeister, tequila, or whatever, and still sink a case of beer. When I was 13, I had a surgery where I had to be put to sleep. The anesthesioligist couldn't get over how much I needed to become drowsy. I took more than twice what an adult commonly needs. Novacain has absolutely no effect on me. Well, the doctors stop at six shots, because that is to dangerous.


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I can relate to this. Anesthetic wears off me almost instantly, which made getting four wisdom teeth out at the same time unbelievably nasty. The dentist filled me up with so much anesthetic, and different kinds to boot, that he finally said it would be dangerous to give me any more. I can usually will myself back to clarity and control from drugs pretty easily, and in fact it is hard for me to get high because of that. I have an easy and high tolerance for booze.

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The reality, is that for someone like me, becoming addicted to drugs or alcohol is physically unlikely. I couldn't possibly sustain it.

I am wondering if resistance has anything to do with it. That an addict simply starts up with a quick cheap high, and as there resistance increases, moves on to the next thing. I am led to understand that this is how herione addicts get started.


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Very, very interestingly, to me, and tending to suggest that you might be very wrong that tolerance mitigates against dependency, it is supposedly being theorized by some scientists that having a high natural tolerance for alcohol may be a strong disposition toward becoming an alcoholic. Not too coincidentally, I think, my grandfather was a lifelong alcoholic from an early age, and my mother and I both had some problems with it on a lesser scale.

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I never understood why the whole debate never mentioned that yes, some people actually like being high, and that heck, since they enjoy it, just like some people enjoy coffee in the morning, or kids love a candy bar, they can't wait to get their hands on a new drug. That some people can drink one cup of coffee and others can't that some people can have a hit and others can't.


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Again, we were discussing whether addiction could have substantial psychological components, not whether those components were always a part of addiction.

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Is addiction a loss of control? When I drank heavily, my belief was that if I was to loose my job, or lost control of anything else, that I was an alcoholic.

And so getting back to Lindsay Lohan and the others. Hasn't anyone thought that maybe they are bored? Perhaps living out your dream to the fullest is no longer stimulating. Look at the path Britney took. She got married, had kids (two unfortunate patches some poeple use), and now is using drugs. Did it take having kids for her to realize that she has problems?


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I don't know. Some things she's quoted as saying makes it sound like she still doesn't know. If anything, I'd think her career tapering off must have been a huge contributor. I don't think she went around flashing her [censored] because of her kids.

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I don't know if being a child star, or growing up priveledged has much to do with their partying habits. I am thinking that on the immortality complex, with parents constantly telling them to chase it, maybe they believe that they are bigger than drugs.


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They probably think they are bigger than the universe, and probably 90% or more of the people they meet will either act like they are or tell them straight out that they are. Plus, they're really young. Young kids don't think of the future much, and the privileged ones especially very often have almost no concept of reality making serious demands that they won't be able to meet easily. When young, a lot of kids have the kind of snotty self-regard and over-estimation that makes them think that problems only befall the weak, and feel themselves excluded from that category and therefore from any real problems and dangers.

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So I guess now having supportive parents is a bad thing, maybe it increases the kids willingless to take more risks, take more mistakes, and heaven forbid, temp fate with drugs.


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Supportive can mean so many different things, including some not so great. Often it just means doing whatever shuts the kid up or gets him out of your hair or to stop guilt-tripping you. A lot of what passes for support is actually selfishness and an attempt to back away from your kids and your responsibilities toward them.

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I also don't undertand how people become addicted to pills. Yes, an upper to get through the day, a downer to sleep. But what about things like vicadin? I can't imagine being at a party, everyone is sitting around talking, drinking a beer, and someone pops out with a bottle of pills? Pills don't appear to be a social drug.

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I guess a drug's a drug, but pills kind of scare me.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

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Blarg,

Do you think that these girls... Lindsay, Britney, Paris, etc... are just so used to getting everything they want from their parents, that when they don't get everything they want from others around them that causes problems for them?

In other words, are they just incapable of handling even minimal rejection, because they never learned how to cope with it early in life?


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Yes. Weird but common example: I had a few roommates in college who grew up never having to do anything around the house, even pick up their underwear. So they just dropped it anywhere and it seemed natural to them and nothing to complain about. There are all kinds of things like that which show more than simple carelessness. If you never have any real expectations put upon you, you can devolve to a really low level without even noticing it, and then be surprised when the wider world doesn't let you get away with it without some grief.

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How does group social dynamics play into the picture?

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I'm sure celebrities have the same thing going on. Being protected, adored, waited on hand and foot, and paid inordinate amounts of money just for showing up and doing a little work must be very disorienting even though it might eventually grow to feel completely ordinary. Actually encountering ordinary life and it's troubles must feel chaotic and scary in comparison.

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

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But again, I can't understand how a guy with a genius IQ would not want to preserve his health and life.

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One possible explanantion, is that intelliegent and driven people will examine the odds of significant adverse heath effects and determine that they will NOT be in the category of people that are adversely affected. (ie an element of risk taking)

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

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I've always thought that if a close friend or family member was going through such issues, and if i had the money, I would simply take them to a remote location for three or four months. A location that was naturally beautiful, and have them stay within a comfortable two bedroom house.

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Bubbles, do you think the issue is just removing them from their environment?

What happens when you return to civilization?

Don't you think that additional intervention is required to change habits?

Re: Lindsay Lohan and Rehab
 

According to Dina Lohan, Lindsay will be extending her stay in rehab.