Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Someone tell him...

If you're in a really slow taxi and you miss your flight, which makes you miss a meeting, which ruins a billion-dollar deal, which costs your million-dollar bonus and the hand of the boss's daughter in marriage... and you sued that taxi driver...

...you wouldn't even get the taxi fare. 'Liability'. Look it up.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

Well I do see that players being affected by all 3 breached accounts have gotten there money so I was shorted about 27k as of right now. I'm not real happy lol. Well I hope there still finishing up payments tomorrow and i'll wake up with the rest in my account.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

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In the hypothetical scenario where Absolute is on trial for this debacle...

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Wouldn't such a trial be a criminal action?

In a civil case, presumably those who lost money would be seeking to recoup their losses. If they can recoup their losses without going to trial, isn't that always going to be better?

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This is true were the harmed parties only seeking compensatory damages (the actual amount of money lost to the cheater).

From my point of view, however, the damages are clearly greater than simply the money lost directly to the cheater.

There is the potentiality of intangible damages as well.

For instance, a hypothetical scenario where the cheat busted someone who subsequently could not make his mortgage payment and therefore was foreclosed on his house, causing a his spouse to file for divorce.

Had he not been cheated out of his money then the subsequent events may never have occurred.

To avoid punitive damages, it would be incumbent on Absolute to prove that he would have lost the money anyway. Which is not easy.

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What court has jurisdiction to hear the matter? A guy in New Mexico played on an Indian Reservation, and his slot machine said he won a jackpot of over a million dollars. The casino said -oops, malfunction. You can't get more than the maximum $25,000 these machines are supposed to pay out. He has sued BUT

"Regardless, a jury may never get chance to hear Hoffman's case. Native American tribes, as independent nations, have their own court systems and can be sued in state courts only under limited circumstances. New Mexico law generally does not allow tribes to be sued in a state court over a contract dispute, Kleiman said."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?i...215&page=2

If the matter is something deemed to have happened on Mr Norton's tribe's territory - you may not be able to sue. If Quebec has a similar law about the immunity of an Indian Nation.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

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Someone tell him...

If you're in a really slow taxi and you miss your flight, which makes you miss a meeting, which ruins a billion-dollar deal, which costs your million-dollar bonus and the hand of the boss's daughter in marriage... and you sued that taxi driver...

...you wouldn't even get the taxi fare. 'Liability'. Look it up.

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Did you take into account the subtle differences between Kahnawake versus Kanesatake Mohawk law? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Just got paid.
 

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My explanation
Mark Seif had a chat with some support person in South Korea to clear his name - is obvious and likely.


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Is that similar to the previous assertion that poker could never be rigged or it was the phantom ex-employee, with the hacker, in the Caribbean Islands?

It is clear that Absolute is floating trial balloons on this forum to test what they should or should not say.

It is also clear that they are leveraging this forum in an effort to manage sentiment.

Therefore it would not be unreasonable to consider that Absolute contrived the Seif transcript in an effort to create the impression that verifying cheating beyond about two months is impossible because they dump their hand history database when it reaches 30 gigs.

I image Absolute saying something to the effect of "Okay, you caught us red handed. Take your $7,000 as compensation for cheating you for two months and shut up please. Any money you may have lost to cheating beyond two months is impossible to verify, so don't bother. We won't trust any hand history you send us. By the way, since you accepted payment, consider the issue settled. See you at the tables!"

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I have no doubt that if you take the most pessimistic and conspirational view of everything AP does, you can come up with a pessimistic and conspirational view of everything AP does.

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Let's recap for a moment:

[1] A major conspiracy to defraud poker players,
[2] possibly perpetrated by the top of the Absolute food chain,
[3] originally denied by Absolute,
[4] followed by a red herring about an "ex-employee" hacker and
[5] eventually an admission of massive cheating by a "high level" consultant.

Yet you are insulted when others may speculate from a position of pessimism or conspiracy?

Are you or have you ever received any form of compensation from Absolute, monetary or otherwise?

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

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I thought AJ was in at AP's inception, my mistake. Their friendship is still very much an issue, though.

You mention AP's fury towards AJ - does that include Scott Tom, to the best of your knowledge? On either side of the equation?

I wonder who's actually running that place now.

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I can't talk about what I know [hi AP], but it's an excellent question which blah blah blah Costa Rica blah blah.

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I'm having a hard time filling in the "blah's". Are you saying that by going to Costa Rica you will figure this out? Because I doubt you're going to come away with anything resembling the truth if it's not going to look pretty on this forum. I'm pretty sure everyone at Absolute Poker will tell you they're furious at both AJ and Scotty, whether it's true or not. Sure many AP staff will be truly furious about Scotty/AJ/etc., but will those people really be informed if/where Scotty/AJ remain with the company? On the other hand, the people who aren't furious with those two(i..e. any other people who were aware of the scheme in the beginning or are close friends) will still obviously tell you that they're furious.

Even if AP does tell you the truth, will anyone here even believe it? In these forums, Absolute Poker = "the boy who cried wolf"... or OJ Simpson. To the rest of the world though, Absolute Poker = Keyser Soze.

Re: Just got paid.
 

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Is that similar to the previous assertion that poker could never be rigged or it was the phantom ex-employee, with the hacker, in the Caribbean Islands?

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What previous assertion that poker could never be rigged?

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Therefore it would not be unreasonable to consider that Absolute contrived the Seif transcript in an effort to create the impression that verifying cheating beyond about two months is impossible because they dump their hand history database when it reaches 30 gigs.

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It actually opens them up to a series of problems, because then there is nothing to stop people from creating HHs.

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I image Absolute saying something to the effect of "Okay, you caught us red handed. Take your $7,000 as compensation for cheating you for two months and shut up please. Any money you may have lost to cheating beyond two months is impossible to verify, so don't bother. We won't trust any hand history you send us. By the way, since you accepted payment, consider the issue settled. See you at the tables!"

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No, Absolute is not saying this.

There is still the opportunity of criminal charges anyway.

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Are you or have you ever received any form of compensation from Absolute, monetary or otherwise?

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No. I have not received any compensation in the past, I am not receiving any compensation currently, and I do not envisage receiving any compensation in the future.

Re: Just got paid.
 

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David,

That's awesome, thank you for doing that.

-Nat

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Definitely. Already makes me feel better about this thread.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

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Someone tell him...

If you're in a really slow taxi and you miss your flight, which makes you miss a meeting, which ruins a billion-dollar deal, which costs your million-dollar bonus and the hand of the boss's daughter in marriage... and you sued that taxi driver...

...you wouldn't even get the taxi fare. 'Liability'. Look it up.

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Apples and oranges.

There is no expectation of arriving from point A to point B in a taxi at an exact time for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the unpredictability of traffic patterns.

There is, however, an expectation of "fair play" when playing poker online.

A relevant comparison would be:

You have the absolute nuts and your opponent just shoves in his remaining $100,000. Your poker client crashes due to a server error and your hand is folded.

Sorry, tough luck, but you agreed to bear that risk in the user agreement. However, no where in the agreement does it state that you are responsible for any loss, or loss of potential gains, if Absolute's "high level" consultants decide to view your hole cards in an effort to cheat you out of your cash.

Re: AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement
 

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Im sure this conversation went down either as described or slighlty altered but it seems incredibly obvious that Seif was planning to release the transcript and was trying to come across all 'look, this is how I was talking in private, it's obvious I'm innocent!!'. Whether support was in on the gig is not clear. Whether Seif is actually innocent and was just putting on this act out of desperation to try and get the truth out or not, is also unclear.

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I have read here that

1. Seif is suspected of having a device to see hole cards

and

2. that he has lost about a million dollars on the AP site

Until someone refutes 2 I don't think I'm going to believ 1