Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

It's not even strictly the physical that we're worried about, either, Katy. We men like to think we know our partners, that we know whether or not she's a control freak and whether or not we're OK w/ that, and other important facts about her personality. But there are a great number of men who at least have heard tales of woe over a beer from other men lamenting that the woman they thought they married turned out to be a radically different creature. We've heard stories about a woman who's put up with a man's faults just long enough to get him to tie the knot. Then, after that's done, she starts trying to "fix" him. We've heard about women who are suddenly nags, suddenly controlling, or suddenly different now that they have us locked in.

Katy, a lot of these fears are not necessarily rational. It's not like all men expect our women to balloon into nagging chunkasaurs as soon as we come back from the honeymoon. However, we've heard stories and maybe seen some examples, and in spite of other counterexamples in front of our eyes, it's something that might give us pause. I'm sure women have fears like these about their men. Maybe you need to talk to a bride-to-be who's less than a week from her wedding.

Neither Blarg nor I are saying that all women change for the worse, physically or otherwise, after they get married. However, it does happen sometimes, and I think some degree of fear of this phenomenon could keep a man who loves one woman and one woman only away from the alter. I also think that addressing this fear is much, much easier for your friend to do with her man. He's much, much more likely to want to hear about how his woman promises to stay sexy and that she's not hiding a secret nag or hatred of some of his habits than he is to want to hear about how he's such a commitment-phobe or how he's been given an ultimatum to have a ring on her finger by such-and-such date or else, or how his woman doesn't think he loves her because he hasn't proposed yet. If you're going to advise your friend as to where she should start the discussion with her boyfriend about getting him to propose, this is easily the best place to start. You and she may think it's ridiculous that men think this way, fine, but that doesn't mean he's not. Convincing him that fearing this IS as ridiculous as you think it is will go a long ways towards getting him to propose. If it doesn't work, then you can have your friend start to gently broach the other issues.

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

This could need it's own thread.

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

This could need it's own thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent idea, NhINut. I agree.

I have learned a lot over the last couple years being on 2+2. I find the topic interesting. I guess I never realized how terrified guys were that their future wives might grow ugly or frigid. This was a big surprise to me. I can appreciate the seriousness of marriage and the permanency. It's understandable that many men are hesitant, especially when it comes to having children.

Regardless, I think the guy in my friend's relationship is not doing her any favors by continuing to live with her. She's made it clear what she wants and if he can't commit to marriage then maybe they should just go their separate ways. I mean how many years do you wait for someone to make up their mind?

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or just change, period.

It's like when a new boss gets hired. Something must be done, even if it makes no sense.

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

For this reason, one of the lessons that I completely tried to drill into my daughter's head is, "You can't change people!" To be fair, this applied equally to female friends who chose a -EV path in life.

I think in some ways it's part of the nurturing side of women that they want to "fix" things. People misunderstand just how little control or say they have over someone else's life.

Sometimes I do think women have manipulation in their future plans. However, for the most part, they just naively expect their partner's interests and habits to change with marriage they way they envision "marriage" to be.

(You have to consider, little girls are raised on Happy Forever After stories.)

If your guys watches 30 hours of sports a week, he's not suddenly going to decide he's no longer interested and desire to watch reality TV with you.

So, we had conversations along the line of, "You realize you always said you wanted to do X, and if you stay with guy Y that will NEVER happen considering his background, etc. Can you live with that FOREVER?"

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or just change, period.

It's like when a new boss gets hired. Something must be done, even if it makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Something must be done god damn it and we won't give up until we've fixed all your problems! Things are flawed, we must fix them! You guys have a lot of potential [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or just change, period.

It's like when a new boss gets hired. Something must be done, even if it makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. Something must be done god damn it and we won't give up until we've fixed all your problems! Things are flawed, we must fix them! You guys have a lot of potential [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll just continue to pile on the love for this little aphorism. This is truth, DB [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Ask the Lounge About Men
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's the truth.

Men want women to stay the same
Women want men to change for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll just continue to pile on the love for this little aphorism. This is truth, DB [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

or, as my grandmother would tell me:

Men get married hoping their wives never change.
Women get married hoping their husbands will change.

Neither hopes come true.

Also,

Men learn to love the women they find attractive
Women learn to find attractive the men they love.